The Steel Guitar Forum

Is there any polite way to tell a Drummer their meter is just behind the beat? Being real sensitive to meter... I notice many drummers seem to slow down. Just a hair is enough to drive me nuts. When the meter lags I cannot put any "feel" into a ride. I am lucky to be playing with a great drummer named "Roy Ledford". My comments are inspired by fill-in drummers I've played with. I'm not new to this problem... but am more curious what some or you do in this case.

Jeff in Frederick County, MD.

I don't what is worse, A drummer that plays too fast or one that plays too slow. I've had to endure both. It is very hard to put any feel in a song when the drummer is not in the pocket.



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Playing PSG keeps you on your toes.

How about when the tempo is ok, but you can't hardly find it for all the hot shot drum licks. We had one for awhile and it was like, Buddy Rich meets George Jones. We are lucky enough now to have one we can work with. I don't know, but if a drummer is worth anything they should be able to feel the change.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Craig A Davidson on 15 July 2001 at 06:25 AM.]</p></FONT>

Q. What's the difference between a drum machine and a live drummer?

A. With a drum machine you only have to punch in the tempo once.

Take one of his drumsticks, take him outside to a patch of ground. Stick the drumstick in the ground, then pull it out and say, "Now, that's a hole in the ground." Then slap him on his behind and say , "And that's your a@#. IT'S 1-2-3-4."

Being a drummer I can tell you a couple of things that can help. Get him a metronome for the snare. I personally never needed one of these but I have had to play with drummers that drag. Is your bass player rushing? Sometimes the bass player will go right past you on the shuffles. Something about that walking bass that'll make them do that.
The other thing is maybe he's not paying attention. I had a drummer who was preoccupied with his girlfriend all the time or just kinda drifted out there somewhere. I got him a bucket of bubble gum. Those old country boys in the factorys always chew tobacco and they say it makes them work harder and baseball players used to chew all the time for concentration. What the hey, if it works I'd wash the dog in the rain. Suprisingly everyone I know that's tried the bubble gum said it made them concentrate better including me. It's Super Bubble!

Hey Jeff from Frederick, if the link posted below works then the solution to your dilemma has been solved. Just look at the expression on the drummer's face. I guarantee he no longer plays behind the beat as long as I'm around!!
http://takingcareofbusiness.com/jayhenley/gary's%20pic.htm

Gary Lee

<SMALL>So many drummers... So little time</SMALL>

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Thanks to all on the replies.

I'd rule out being preoccupied in my case. The metronome is a sure thing as my best friend "Bryant Lithicum" has a drummer who uses one all the time. Problem is getting a drummer to even consider using one.. it hurts their ego. I guess the bottom line for me is the drummer is the most important player for me... next is Bass. My conclusion on all this is when you have a good rythum section... appreciate the heck out of it. Nothing is forever.

Hang in there,
jeff@cactus.com

I highly recomend the Boss Dr. Beat. It has a "tap along" option that helps when learning new songs. You just tap along with the song and it gives you the bpm instead of having to tweak a dial.

Let's not put all the blame on the drummer. Our problem lies in the rhythm guitar player! The guitar player and I can be working out a slow instrumental, and when our rythym guy figures out what key we're in, it automatically shifts gears into his standard shuffle tempo. We've even had him play along with songs on tape or CD, and he complains that the session musicians aren't keeping a steady tempo. Go figure.
Roger

Jeff, your right about Roy, He is a great drummer! Tell Him I said Hello.
As for the problems with the other Drummers, I bet most of them can't keep time with a metronome, I've had that experience more than once.
One thing I have noticed about most Drummers that have a good steady tempo is that they always seem to be bounceing while they're playing. Has anyone else noticed the bounce?

Actually, I think fiddlers, steel guitarists, and guitarists make many more mistakes than drummers on average. It's just that they aren't as noticeable. The drummer is the most important player in the band, far more than the steel-player, so we ought to be a little kind.

There is a gadget called a "Beat Bug" that attaches to the snare drum that acts kinda like a speedometer showing beats per minute. It will show you if you are speeding or dragging. This really helped a particular drummer that I know. Jody.

Our current drummer "studied" with a metronome and worked his way through college on a music scholarship, but he doesn't use it or need it anymore...... Just make a notation on his chart what beat you want, (or if no chart just tell him the number), and thats what you get! www.genejones.com

I guess I've been lucky. I've worked with a number of Frederick area drummers, including Roy Ledford and they're pretty much all good. I remember once when the band I was in was losing the drummer, we devoted several practices to auditioning replacements and I learned that there are some pretty awful ones out there.

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Rick Richtmyer
Good News

To my dear friend Roger Crawford; I knew a player just like that in my very limited playing in a band days back in the 50's.

He also did something that used to drive me crazy. Sometimes, regardless of what tempo the tune started at, he would gradually get faster and faster and faster. Back in those days, we did NOT play with drums, So it was his job to set and maintain the tempo. GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!

He vehemently denied this when other band members called it to his attetion. Even a metronome was "wrong"

So yes indeed, "Go figger"

Love you man,

carl

They way around hurting the guys ego is to come to rehearsal with your new metronome and announce to the group that you want to take a little time over the next few rehearsals to catalog the exact tempo of every song you do.
(Tell the drummer you got the idea from an interview you once saw featuring whoever his drum hero is.)
Get the kind of metronome that has a light that blinks on the beat (so the whole band can see it) and tell him you just want to use it for a few weeks to make sure all the songs are getting kicked off at the same tempo every night (but the light blinks throughout the whole song).
Then set your watch, and see how long it takes before the drummer tells you "uh... I think this metronome is broken..."!
Seriously... I played with a guy who used a blinking metronome religously and he claimed it helped him alot.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 16 July 2001 at 10:04 AM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 16 July 2001 at 07:07 PM.]</p></FONT>

Pete pretty much nailed some great advice here for the original topic question.
I would like to add; that most drummers have worked with Meters; but have put it by the way side for one reason or another(we all do!!!!!!!). But when and if he is having a problem with time.....make sure to go up to him after a song where the meter was perfect.....and tell him how perfect and great it was.......and how much he makes it so easy for you to play when the meter is that perfect.
He then will be more cautious of pleasing the band memebers and will concentrate more on his meter....which is the "MAIN" factor in meter......."Concentration to It".
Ricky

I will tell you that Roger Crawford being a drummer and a STEEL player can hold a beat. In some cases the bass player does the pushing (oh yes, Roger plays bass too).

I picked a show with Herby Wallace III earlier this year. He plays at the Cheyenne Club in Orlando.

Herby had this neat little device that clipped on his snare drum and had a wire running to an LED readout. Once he started a song, the meter would show the speed and constantly update at every hit of the snare drum. Herby said it really helped him get a grip on tempo. He used to speed up without knowing it, but not now. And besides that he is a killer drummer.

Bill Ferguson

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"Stop worrying about what makes a steel work and concentrate on how YOU make it sound"

I once hired the "Drum Teacher" @ the music store where I also was teaching at the time as a sub for my bands regular drummer.
I could always hear his lessons throught the walls of my teaching room and he seemed to have good time.
He had worked with a touring "Ice skating" show for 2 or 3 years and had lots of credits that seemed to say he would be a perfect "sub" for us.
The 1st night he showed up for work at the bar we were playing and set up his kit. He kept running out to his car and back to the stage and looking in all his drum cases.
He then informed me that he had "left his metronome at home" but that he would "do" his best.
He sucked! He could not keep time in a bucket with out that flashing light to follow!
We got another drummer to fill in for the rest of the dates until our regular guy got back.
JE:-)>

Jody Sanders hit it on the head. Its called a "beat bug". It hangs for the rim of the snare with a trigger on head of the drum. As the snare is hit ,it triggers the beat bug. It shows a number on the face of the bug. If the drum is struck evenly or steadily it will show the same number. If you speed up or slow down the number wil change accordingly. I've used one for years.Personally,it has helped me but better then that it STOPS the arguements between players about rushing and dragging.
I originaly bought mine cause I worked a job with several female singers. [most picky]
I LOVE IT and recommend it for ALL drummers.
Thanks for the time. Paul

Guess I'm real lucky at the moment. The guy I usually play drums with is one of the best drummers I've ever played with. I really notice his absence when I play with other drummers. His one fault would be steadily speeding up the beat on steel instrumentals. Boy oh boy you start something like Boot Heel Drag at a medium tempo and end it like a runaway train. Great guy though....and no ego problem. He also knows more drummer jokes than anyone I know.

Jeff Lampert...
I agree with you 100%....The Drums and Bass are the most important part of the band. They're sitting In the background and don't get much attention so I guess that makes a lot of them play louder which is what I've had more trouble with than being off beat.
But a pair of good one's carry the band. We can mess up playing steel, lead, singing or anything else and the croud will laugh with us. Not so with Drums and Bass because that throws that nice even beat off that the crowd Is just taking for granted. So if you guy's have some good one's make sure you let them know how much they add to your group.

Ernie...you sliped one In on me. So little time. Didn't catch It til the 2nd time.

Bob Carlson
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bob Carlson on 19 July 2001 at 05:50 PM.]</p></FONT>

Jody,
That Beat Bug is the one I seen. It'll tell you exactly how many beats per minute and then you can write it down so you'll always know how to kick the song off. Even if a drummer has perfect meter, he might kick it off a little slow or fast. I always heard and believe no matter how many people in the band, the drummer and the bass player are half of it.