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Topic: Gypsy Steel ? |
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 25 Oct 2002 10:51 pm |
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I ran into a sax player on a big band gig tonight that said his great uncle in Hungary was a famous gypsy steel player years ago. He said recording exist.
Anybody know anything about that stuff ?
Bob |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 26 Oct 2002 7:53 am
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I'm an avid fan of "Le Jazz Hot" and have never heard of Gypsy Jazz steel. I would certainly love to hear steel or resonator in this genre of music.
BTW....Nov 19 - 24 is the "Django Festival" at Birdland. Perhaps I'll post that in Events & Announcements. |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 26 Oct 2002 8:57 am
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I've never heard of anybody playing Gypsy steel guitar, but I'd love to find out more about it. Please see if you can track that down, Bob!
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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 26 Oct 2002 9:34 am
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So far i've have'nt heard of any Gypsys Steelin' here in France.
Perhaps in Eastern Europa there might be but if there are some they're keepin' it to themselves. 
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Steel what?
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Paul Graupp
From:
Macon Ga USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2002 9:40 am
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Bob: I recall an article in Fender/Fretts about a steel player in Hungary. Unfortunately I no longer have my collection of the magazines as I sent them to Herb Steiner for safe keeping. All except one issue and that went to Jerry Byrd as he was the cover photo and had an article in it.
That would have been in the 60s so maybe the picture was from the 50s or so. Wish I could tell more......
REegards, Paul  |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 26 Oct 2002 10:06 am
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| I'm a lifelong Djangofile! I sent an e-mail to Ian Cruikshank who wrote a book on the gypsy jazzz stle, produced several films and concerts and owns Fret Records devoted to gypsy muisc. If anyone would be able to answer this he would. Keep you posted. |
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nick allen
From:
France
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Posted 28 Oct 2002 12:33 am
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May or may not be relevant... but a few years ago I saw an Oscar Aleman compilation in a record store (Oscar Aleman being frequently compared to Django Reinhardt) and they had one of those "listening posts" (I'm sure there's a correct name for them, but I don't know what it is) where you can listen to the first minute of each track on headphone... and a large number of the tracks featured a steel guitar. I'm sure somebody out there knows more... I should have bought the record then, but didn't for some reason, and have never found it since...
Nick |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 28 Oct 2002 4:26 am
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| I don't know if there's more than one compilation, but the one I have does not have any steel on it. Oscar Aleman did play a roundneck National Tricone prior to WWII. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Andy Zynda
From:
Wisconsin
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Posted 28 Oct 2002 9:12 am
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Django festival?
Birdland?
Where's birdland? I'm a Django fan/student and If it's close enough, it would probably be a kool thing to see.
-andy- |
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Smiley Roberts
From:
Hendersonville,Tn. 37075
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Posted 28 Oct 2002 10:27 am
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Andy,
I believe,the "Birdland" that Howard is referring to,is located right in the heart of N.Y.C.,quite a ways from Wisc.
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~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 28 Oct 2002 3:01 pm
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I've got some calls out to track down the sax player already but the name of the guy was something like Horvath Sandow if I remember what he said right.
Bob |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 29 Oct 2002 12:31 pm
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I received the following message from Pieter Verkuylen:
Hi Brad,
I saw the thread about Gypsy steel on the SGF, but I can't reply quickly. I suppose my subscription for the SGF is too old and a renewal takes some
time. I found out you have to pay first these days.....
For those who have never seen a gypsy steeler, have a look at http://pages.infinit.net/meuhp/Pictures.htm
(7th picture) Looks like Joseph Reinhardt has played lap style guitar!
Bob Brozman has played with Romano; there's a picture in Romano's gypsy guitar book........ and there's a picture of me and our gypsy jazz session
band at www.steeldays.nl I've been playing 'gypsy jazz style' dobro for 2 years now, after a friend gave me Robin Nolans play along book & cd. Great material!
Would you mind copying this info into the thread?
I don't mind if you put my email adress in the message for those who want more info about Robin Nolans books or something.
I'll be back on the SGF asap....
regards,
Pieter Verkuylen
the Netherlands
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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 29 Oct 2002 8:45 pm
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The name of the guy is Horvath Sandor. He has a relative living in SF named Peter I will be contacting. I heard that some recordings do exist.
Bob |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 30 Nov 2002 9:24 am
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Has there been any new info on this topic?
I spent two evenings at the Django Fest in NY. The music and musicians were incredible. It's like "their" bluegrass. |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 30 Nov 2002 9:38 am
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| Django was my dog (named after THE Django), but he is gone now and can't help out here. www.genejones.com |
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Bill Fulbright
From:
Atlanta, GA
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Posted 2 Dec 2002 9:05 pm
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Thanks for the link!!
These are TERRIFIC pictures of Django. I have studied and listened to him since 1970. He has been a huge influence on my jazz guitar playing, as he has been to many!! But I have never seen pictures like these... GREAT GREAT GREAT saved em all off line.
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Bill Fulbright
Mullen D-10 8x5; Gibson ES-165; Peavey Vegas 400;
ICQ# 2251620 My Music Site
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 3 Dec 2002 3:50 am
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Bill, the book to get is "Django Reinhardt " by Charles Delaunay. It's the definitive (if somewhat romanticized) version of Django's and the Hot Club's story. But be careful - Amazon has the small paperback version but the out of print large format version is the one to get because it has lots of great photos. there's one copy now on Alibris.com. If I didin't already own it I'd grab it.
[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 03 December 2002 at 03:50 AM.] |
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Pieter Verkuylen
From:
Nijmegen, Gelderland, the Netherlands
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Posted 5 Dec 2002 1:14 pm
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Hi y'all,
Glad to be able to react on this subject again: Andy, I'm gonna order Delauneys book right away, to see if I can find something about Joseph R. and lap style guitar on the picture I've mentioned.
I did a search on the Internet for Oscar Aleman: he has played a metal dobro 'spanish style' for a while. I've listened to soundclips from a cd on CdNow site; great guitar player, I had never heard of him. The steel guitar on his cd was probably from an early period when he was one half of a duo with a lap style guitar player called 'Les Loupes'
Howard R.: was Frank Vignola on the Django festival in New York? I have found a new double album called Gipsy Jazz School, Django's Legacy: on cd 1 (1938 - 1966) mostly Django's contemporaries, the Ferret brothers, Jacques Montagne, some peculiar cuts.... good for the historic perspective. Excellent booklet 80+ pages, great pictures. On the second cd (period 1964 - 2002) is a solo piece from mr. Vignola, recorded in 2001. Whow.. imagine Django with five fingers on his left hand!
Now back to playing Django tunes on a dobro with just one artificial metal finger:-)
regards,
Pieter
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 5 Dec 2002 2:49 pm
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Hi Pieter.... Frank Vignola was not there this year. Dorado Schmitt, his son Samson, Angelo DeBarre, and Ludivic Bier (who is phenominal on accordian)were the musicians this year. It was fantastic.
One of the nights I was there, guest artists were Bucky Pizzarelli and James Carter. The finale consisted of all these guys on stage and you can imagine the music that came out of them.
Can you tell us about playing "dobro" in this musical genre? It must be very interesting. What tuning do you use?[This message was edited by HowardR on 05 December 2002 at 02:50 PM.] |
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Pieter Verkuylen
From:
Nijmegen, Gelderland, the Netherlands
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Posted 6 Dec 2002 3:43 am
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Howard,
I’m still experimenting a lot, or should I say pioneering, because so far I haven’t found any recorded examples. I have a mini-disk recording from a workshop, Stacy Phillips and Rob Ickes playing swing tunes like Honeysuckle Rose and Sweet Georgia Brown. When I started with the 1st Robin Nolan book, the big discovery was that many tunes where in ‘guitarfriendly’ keys like G, Dm etc. Until that time I was fooling around with tunes like Lullaby of Birdland, Joy Spring, Yardbird Suite etc. tunes written by hornplayers.
I usually play the tunes in standard G-tuning, sometimes with the low G tuned down to E. It depends on the tune, when I need minor chords for instance. That way you have *min7 and *7 chords with a straight bar. For the rest it’s slants, slants & chokes, substitute chords, the whole bag of tricks. I don’t try to ‘comp’ the chords like a rhythm guitar in up tempo tunes. Soloing on faster tunes is difficult, when you depend more on the open strings. It sounds less jazzy, too much like bluegrass IMO. The dobro more or less sits between a fiddle and a guitar, so I also pay more attention to what Stephane G. played, the longer notes etc.
Of course, you sometimes reach the limits of what you can do with a steel. The first part of Swing 42 (the ‘head’) ends with four 8th notes descending chromatically: Bb, A, Ab, G.....try to play that fast!
I have listened to Django for 25+ years, never thought I’d be able to play the style. An other amazing discovery was the fact that ‘Hot Club’ is quite popular overhere, several excellent musicians living only a couple of miles away. Nobody had ever seen a dobro so I got many reactions (imagine the faces when I played a couple of slants the first time) I’m thinking about a ‘pilgrimage’ to Samois next year. If you want to know more, keep on asking....
regards,
Pieter
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Pieter Verkuylen
From:
Nijmegen, Gelderland, the Netherlands
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Posted 6 Dec 2002 12:45 pm
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Hi Andy,
Did I mention Robin Nolans site? www.robinnolantrio.com if you want to have a look at the covers of the play-along books. They are meant for guitar players and a hit in Hot Club circles. I've used them a lot and I see others using them too. I guess you can also feed Band-in-the-Box with the chords, but it's fun playing along with the trio. The tunes gradually get a bit more complicated in book 2. My dobro's G-tuning is fairly close to standard guitar tuning, so for me the tab is also useable (although it takes some time to get used to; the fret positions are written above the lines). The 'heads' are the basic melodies with little or no ornamentation. It usually doesn't take much time to learn them, although I mostly have to alter the positions on the neck.
Thanks for the links to your tunes; your chord/melody approach looks quite different from my single string/double stops & octaves approach, but yours are slow tunes of course. My version of Nuages would have slants all over. I have never tried A6-tuning. I've decided a while ago not to move too far away from G-tuning: banjo background you see! Too lazy to learn all the positions on the neck again.
regards,
pieter
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 7 Dec 2002 8:46 am
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Pieter,
Tremelo is a widely used technique in this style of playing. I know that with a standard thumb pick, his would be close to impossible. I've seen a combination flat pick/thumb pick made by Herco. I wonder if this pick, used at an angle to the strings would allow for tremelo, either single string or more. Just a thought.
When is the annual Django Festival in Samois?
Is this strictly a concert venue, or are there "parking lot" picking gatherings as well?....come to think of it, are there parking lots?[This message was edited by HowardR on 07 December 2002 at 09:53 AM.] |
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