Has anyone built a Guit-Steel?

James McGann II · Post by **James McGann II** » 6 Nov 2002 9:31 am

Hey Folks;
I was wondering if any one has built a Guit-Steel like Junior Brown's. I sure would like to get some info. I would like to build it myself but sure could use some advise.
Thanks Alot!!
Your Friend!
Jamie

Scott Camara · Post by **Scott Camara** » 6 Nov 2002 10:31 am

Here you go:
http://www.melobar.com/steelgitr.htm

Scott

James McGann II · Post by **James McGann II** » 6 Nov 2002 11:04 am

Hey Man;
Thanks. I saw those, that is not the way I want to go. I am thinking more onthe line
of ataching my Tele to my Stringmaster 8.
I know some cutting on the Tele will have to
be done but I realy don't care.
Thanks for the reply!
See you!
Jamie

Michael Miller · Post by **Michael Miller** » 6 Nov 2002 11:19 am

Jaimie, According to Junior Brown's site, his guit-steels were made by Michael Stevens, maybe from the Austin area? I think I would try to hunt him down before I cannabilized two nice guitars. JMO. Good luck.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 7 Nov 2002 6:08 am

My partner in the project of the "P.A. Re-Issue" of the Bigsby model steel guitar-Dave Peterson-has just about completed building Junior's newest "guit-steel" (that is a registered trademark name according to Junior)-the development of Junior's newest instrument has been almost two years in the making and hopefully Junior will be taking final delivery in the next few weeks

The new guitar features a "half ash" body with maple and a Bigsby steel guitar neck coupled to a similiar guitar neck setup as his "Old Yeller" which was studied for the new guitar's development-It took several trials to get the tonal balance right between the steel and the guitar-Junior loves the sound of Bigsbys and Fenders-and combining them was not an easy task-but Dave pulled it off with his custom pickup winding capabilities-hopefully you will be seeing Junior playing this one regularly soon-sorry that I cannot post pics-It is a beautiful instrument-much more stunning than "Big Red" which is showing aging signs of being played as hard as Junior does for some years now-also Junior Brown tells us that he and Mr. Stevens have settled into an agreement in which he (Stevens) will not produce another"Guit-Steel"[This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 08 November 2002 at 08:22 PM.]

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 8 Nov 2002 6:53 pm

Wow, Paul, If you took the time to read what we had on the web site - it was an icon at the very bottom of the page that linked to a page from me personally (It was a personal letter from me) - Never did I ever use Jr in any advertising or EVER use the Guitsteel name for the Steelgitr - That is not true. And I would appreciate it if you would email me personally with who said that to you, it's a liable statement that I can not let go from a business point of view.

In that personal letter I stated that I did not like people at NAMM trade shows making the comment that the Steelgitr was a Guitsteel. Dad Patented the Melobar neck 30 years ago and we were always more interested in the Steel part walking around. I also wanted to make a point of stating that no one will ever "copy" Jr. Brown, and what a hero he was to the Non pedal Steel guitar. It's not the Guitar, that is making Jr. - It's Jr.!! It's like saying no one should ever play a Strat upside down and backwards left handed, or they are infringing on Jimmy Hendricks!

You want to crap on me for trying to build a instrument from both Dad and Jr.s thinking, that a player can move with - then guilty. So is every builder that ever tried to make the guitar a better instrument to play. Actually Leo Fender built both those instruments originally and I guess he should be insulted in his grave for someone modifiying his ideas - by the way - I met Leo Fender in person and had the chance to talk with him one on one for 15 minutes when I was 18 years old - he loved Melobar and Steel and I do believe with all my heart he'd love the Steelgitr.

To me you are taking away the greatness of Jr. himself as a player by making it the guitar that is important. But whatever - people love to hate anyone trying to do anything.[This message was edited by Ted Smith on 08 November 2002 at 06:56 PM.][This message was edited by Ted Smith on 08 November 2002 at 06:59 PM.][This message was edited by Ted Smith on 08 November 2002 at 07:05 PM.]

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 8 Nov 2002 8:20 pm

Ted-I have nothing against you or the Mel-O-Bar Co-You can say that you never used Junior's name in advertising your product-I KNOW that I saw his name there before on your website-and what I stated is what JUNIOR TOLD ME-we can call each other liars-I prefer not to-I see that what I posted is offensive to you so I am going to delete it with my apology-I have owned and played a Mel-O-Bar-perhaps you don't recall a few years ago when an unsavory Chicago music dealer stiffed you guys on a custom painted blue color guitar of yours-that your company asked me to investigate and report back to you and I did-I am sorry to have angered you and I realize that your company patented and produced a "stand up type" steel long before J.B. came up with his-In the last few years that I have come to know Junior as a friend-I have found that he is quite protective of any use of his stage name or his instrument's name without his permission and rightfully so-Junior is unlike any other player of guitar or steel guitar that you will ever see-I think his uniqueness is cause for his desire to keep himself as the individual who won't be copied-to that degree he has told me that he "paid off" Stevens to never make another "guit-steel"-he also promised that he would not allow my partner and I to sell another "guit-steel" type instrument to anyone other than him-and he personally told me that he took offense to his name being used in advertisement of something that he did not endorse-and for that reason someone representative of him contacted your company to have his name removed from the website-That is the truth as I believe it Ted[This message was edited by PAUL WARNIK on 09 November 2002 at 04:17 AM.]

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 9 Nov 2002 1:07 pm

Paul, I am not in the pointing finger game either - But - I HAVE the original pages that you are referring to and welcome anyone to review those.

At the bottom of the page there was a small icon with Jr. on it that stated "A Word About Jr. Brown". You clicked that Icon and it stated what I wrote above. NEVER was there ANY insinuation that Jr. Brown played a Steelgitr or even knew anything about it. It was a compliment from me to his playing and that was IT!

As far as what you heard from Jr. - a woman mailed me stating she was his agent and that she had been told by a person she didn't know - that we were advertising, (I think I'm beginning to know who that was), and would we please not use Jr.s name at all on our web site. I returned the letter requesting she view the web site herself and she will see that in no way was it an advertisement, (if it had been Paul - they would have sued - not sent a note), and it was no problem to remove the letter.

Whether you were repeating heresay or not Paul - it was a very serious remark that has consequences. We're living in a time when anyone can make a statement the entire world reads with little concern for facts or finding out was it true. This forum has lost all joy for me from a music stand point it's now nothing more than waiting for the email from someone telling me I'd better check it because of a comment like you've made or from [name deleted] - it's sick and tireing. I used to consider the poeple who bought guitars from us friends and family, and I do remember you and used to consider you in that group- and as far as I'm concerned - if it can't be that way, I'm getting out of the building entirely. It's just not worth it. [This message was edited by Ted Smith on 09 November 2002 at 01:19 PM.][This message was edited by b0b on 20 November 2002 at 10:37 AM.]

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 9 Nov 2002 4:56 pm

Ted-thank you for the explanation of what happened in reference to the "mention" of Junior Brown-I only knew the story from his side about the contact between parties-I give you credit for coming out with the "steel-gitr"-probably no other manufacturor could have the type of design experience to do it-and If I am correct-the copyright or patent on a musical instrument is for 17 years-then it probably has been that time since the "guit-steel" was introduced and become something of public domain in concept-which you may have every legal right to draw upon-regardless of the fact that someone doesn't like it-I understand that it is difficult to please people in the steel guitar business-I too have no desire to be involved in the building of instruments again-Ted I apologize here publicly if I misconstrued what I was told and what I thought I read-It seems that Smith is the only current regular production maker of an instrument of this type-and in fact it is probably more ergonomically comfortable for most players because of the angled construction between the two necks-I have played on both "Old Yeller" and "Big Red"-I dont know how Junior can play these so well having to have his hands positioned (so seemingly uncomfortable to me)in order to play the thing-It made me realize that one could be a great steel and guitar player-but those talents alone would not neccessarily ensure that one could be a great player of a "guit-steel" or "steel-gitr"

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 11 Nov 2002 7:17 am

Paul,

That was the most respectful and decent post I have ever read, and I'm not sure what to say, other than you have my complete respect back.

Re-reading this entire post, I think it's obvious to anyone that I am not handling "music business" well anymore, at all - probably too close to the original Melobar maker and it makes me too defensive. I've probably alienated more players to Melobar than encouraged - and when you reach that point - it's time to pass the torch on. It is time for a new Melobar President, it deserves better than me. And I believe it will evolve again - from a business standpoint, once that takes place. I think you got caught in that cross fire of emotion Paul and I apologize for jumping on you so hard. I hope you can understand and forgive me for that.

Take care, and I hope someday we will get a chance to play these crazy things together.

Ted

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 11 Nov 2002 9:05 am

Ted-Do not sell yourself short-You have every right to be proud (and therefore defensive) of your Family Business and your Fathers' accomplishments-thank you-PW

Gerald Cook · Post by **Gerald Cook** » 13 Nov 2002 4:11 am

WOW.........didn't see all THAT coming!

I've already forgot what the question was.

James McGann II · Post by **James McGann II** » 13 Nov 2002 6:23 am

Hey Folks;
Thanks for the replys. I realy didn't mean
to start anything. I just wanted to know if
anyone had built there own "Guit-steel" or
could give me some Idea on how to wire one
or simple share ideas on how to make one.I know the fine folks who built Mr. Browns have to be under some sort of agreement not to build one for anyone and rightly so. I am
not a guitar builder or for that matter a very good musician.I get by with the help of a fine back-up band, who are very forgiving.
Guit-steel or Guitar steel combo or double neck guitar one six one eight. Don't care what you call it I still would like to like
to get some answers.Thanks to all you "Good Neighbors" Keep The Shiny Side Up & The Greasy Down! Your Friend!
Jamie McGann
Guitar Player for the Classic Country Band "The Forgotten Ones" Guilford ,CT.

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 13 Nov 2002 6:56 am

I'm not a lawyer (though I play one on TV) but my understand of copyright law as applied to guitar designs (primarily the Ibanez lawsuits from the '70s) is that you cannot copyright 'functions' of a guitar, meaning the shape of the body, cutaways, etc. You can copyright non-functional, identifiable trademark shapes like headstocks. Which is what was decided in the Ibanez suit.
Combining an electric guitar with a steel didn't start with Jr. Brown (as evidenced by Ted's Dad's design) and while he may own the tradmark Guit-Steel and be able to decide who and who doesn't get to have a 'real' Guit-Steel (as is his right as the TM owner) there is nothing that would prevent a guitarbuilder from building a similar guitar.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 13 Nov 2002 11:17 am

Mike D-thanks for sharing that bit-I do not know exactly what all issues of the "guit-steel" are copyrighted or patented by J.B.-from what he stated to me he apparently bought out whatever those rights of it were shared with the original maker (Stevens)-I do believe from research by a friend who was long ago considering to build a "ped-a-bro" type instrument-that an individual may build ONE of any type instrument-regardless of patent or copyright infringement-as long as it is strictly for personal use and not marketed to be sold to anyone else or advertised as being made by those upon whom the design may be an infringement upon-To James Mc-since you stated that you do not have experience as a builder of guitars-I would suggest that you consider the Smith Steel-Gitr-Building an instrument of this type is not near as simple as joining together a telecaster and a stringmaster-metal working tools and skills,wood working tools and skills,and electronic circuit knowledge (as applied to instruments) are a few of the main principles needed to be mastered to undergo the construction of this kind of thing-It is not easy-it is time consuming-and probably not financially worthwile investment-wise in the end result

Mike D · Post by **Mike D** » 13 Nov 2002 1:20 pm

Paul, my point was that that (IMO based on my limited knowledge) the combining of two existing instruments into one cannot be patented. Certain 'improvements' in either of the designs may be but I can't see a patent being issued, it's just not original enough. The term 'Guit-Steel' certainly can be trademarked. So no one can make a 'Guit-Steel', label it as such and sell it without Mr. Brown's approval.
He may have payed the original builder money and had had him sign an agreement to the effect that that person would not make any more but making such a combination, as long as it is not labeled 'Guit-steel' is certainly allowable.
And like all things dealing with patents, it's only as good as the lawyers that the patent holder can afford.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 13 Nov 2002 3:39 pm

herb-to answer your question-if you do not like the Smith-which I believe is the only manufacturor advertising an instrument of this type-then you build it yourself-or perhaps a custom maker of instruments could be convinced to to build one for you-if you go with the latter-I suggest having it done by someone who is experienced in the construction of both standard Spanish and Hawaiian guitars

Ted Smith · Post by **Ted Smith** » 17 Nov 2002 4:38 pm

Offense taken Herb - but Chevy's and Fords, we all choose what we like.

I need to make a correction here - I am not offering to build anymore production guitars, and I guess I need to post that on the forum. 14 Steelgitrs were built - I'm building the last one for myself because I DO like the way they look and play - so the debate is over on that.

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 18 Nov 2002 6:43 am

Well now that's it-Ted Smith says no more Steel-Gitrs-Junior is taking final delivery this weekend of the Guit-Steel built for him by my asscociate-and we have no intent to build another-and with Stevens not building any-I guess you have to "Make Your Own" L.O.L.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 18 Nov 2002 2:40 pm

I don't get it. This thing(the Guit-Steel)is something Jr. dreamed up(literally, if we are to believe his press), and Mr. Stevens built, when he was at the Fender Custom Shoppe. As I recall the story, Jr. had a cheap Fender bullet, and wanted to connect it to the 8-string lap steel, but Mike cut out one body for both. So how come Stevens doesn't own the name? I like Jr.'s music a lot, but is he taking hisself a little too seriously here? I mean, there's a lot of people here in the South, who would have no name at all, if Mr. Brown decides he's gonna be the only "Junior!"
So Ted, hang on, at least till I get my Melobro. And it's JIMI HENDRIX, by the way.
And I also read where Jr. is thinking about a new instrument, incorporating knee levers and palm pedals. What's this gonna be called?

Paul Warnik · Post by **Paul Warnik** » 18 Nov 2002 4:23 pm

Stephen G-to answer your question-Junior B has told me directly that he owns the copyright trademark of the name "guit-steel" and that he "payed off" (I took that to mean bought out) whatever rights Stevens co-owned with him-to market or produce such an instrument-and apparently Stevens has agreed to not make another instument of the type-why Junior did this I am not sure-but rather I guess it is an effort to keep his style of playing unique and individual to himself-I don't think there is anything wrong with that-perhaps it may be seen by some as a self-centered action-but really I do not think that anyone could come very close to imitating J.B. even if they had an instrument of the same type from the original maker-I have seen him in concert up close enough times to say that he is unlike any other player that I have ever seen or heard-a true original artist that probably will never be copied

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 18 Nov 2002 9:31 pm

Paul, I agree, Jr.'s talent is considerable. And I have seen him up close enough to watch carefully. And after all that, you know what? Junior Brown still falls into the category of "novelty act." His songs are funny, his drummer doesn't carry a full kit, and to the lay people out there, it may as well be a washboard hanging around his neck, whatever he chooses to call it. And paying one guy not to make the instrument, or even copyrighting the name, won't keep anybody with the time and ability from building one.
And you know what? Ain't nothing gonna keep somebody from playing rings around Junior Brown, with enough practice and determination!

Bob Schaedler · Post by **Bob Schaedler** » 19 Nov 2002 5:34 am

This post is hopelessly Hung Up !!!!!
I would think think the Guit-Steel is the novelty, not Junior's playing(outstanding).
I think it's easier to just raise my Deluxe-8 to waist-high and wear a Stratocaster for access to both. I wouldn't consider using a combination any more convenient.