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Topic: pay pal?? |
Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 2:22 pm |
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i don't know if anyone has had any problems with pay pal but my wife had a seperate account at our bank just for pay pal and ebay. she quit using it and went today to close out the account.
our banker asked her if she tryed to send any money through western union. we don't ever use western union. he looked on the account and they tryed to get 800 something dollars twice.
he checked our business and personal accounts and they were ok.
the banker said that someone must have gotten information through ebay somehow.
she lost $30.00
he said maybe pay pal or ebay couldn't be trusted.
has anyone else had any problems? |
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William Peters
From:
Effort, Pennsylvania, USA
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 3:15 pm
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| . [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:40 PM.] |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 3:34 pm
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I've been using PayPal for several years without problems. You do have to watch out for those fake PayPal emails, though. If you're not careful, you can inadvertantly give some scammer your password.
Since this is computer-related and not about pedal steel, I'm moving it to the "Computers" section of the Forum.
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 Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator |
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William Peters
From:
Effort, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 4:30 pm
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Well guys,
According to your paypal agreement, paypal can freeze your account and keep your money for 6 months. They do not have to have a valid reason, and they do not have to prove anything. They do not have to pay you interest. If they do not like the content on this website, they can freeze b0b's account, with no way to appeal.
I was a paypal member for years, and I never had a problem with my account, but then, I only do about 20 transactions a year. Nevertheless, paypal cost me $400 that I will never see. They froze the account of an ebay store that I had purchased a $400 item from. When that happened, he could not retrieve any of the money for the several hundred items he had sold in about a week, and then couldn't deliver the goods.... didn't have enough capitol left to pay for the shipping on items he had.
Paypal would not refund my money, nor would ebay. So, I withdrew what money was in my account and closed it out.
BTW, I had bought several items from this ebay store in the past with no problems.
There are other alternatives to PayPal. I use 2checkout.com to handle credit card sales. There is a one time setup fee of $50.00, but it is a real credit card processor.
Bill
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 5:46 pm
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| rest case |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 20 Aug 2004 6:25 pm
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| . [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:40 PM.] |
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 2:56 am
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| i suppose that i should have mentioned that the man at the bank sais that my wifes account was just one of dozens that he knew about. besides why do you blow a gasket over something like this? do you own stock? it is just a warning to others not a debate. |
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 3:52 am
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| you are talking to 2 guys with provable experiences. you are just 1 with an opinion and a user sgreement.yours wouldn't hold water in a flood. |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 4:06 am
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No reason to start a war over PayPal.....
It's very simple really,- those who feel it's not safe to use PayPal can choose not to use it, while those of us who feels it's safe can continue using it.
I've used it for two years and never had any problems, I don't have any reason to believe there's a bigger risk of being scammed when using PayPal as there is when using other online Visa transactions.
The hackers are everywhere these days, so it is extremely important to be alert and careful no matter what solution we choose.
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 21 August 2004 at 05:20 AM.] |
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William Peters
From:
Effort, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 4:22 am
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Steinar,
The difference between paypal and other credit card transactions is this: Paypal is not a bank, and is not regulated like a bank. You have none of the legal protections of a bank when you deal with paypal. Yes, Paypal has a user agreement, but it seems they do not follow it unless its in their interest. How many people are going to hire a lawyer, and sue paypal for a couple hundred bucks. Not too many, but there are more than a few lawsuits agains paypal for their business practices.
Like I said before, I had no trouble for years, and only lost money because they screwed with someone elses account. And truthfully, it made it a lot easier to buy and sell on ebay.
By all means go ahead and use PayPal if you want. Personally, I don't have money I can afford to risk with a company that is apparently lacking in ethics and customer support.
If you have the time, and want a few laughs, listen to this recorded paypal conversion between paypal and a guy trying to get his money back. When you call paypal, they tell you "this call may be recorded", so he did.
http://marc.perkel.com/audio/paypal2.mp3
Bill |
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 4:39 am
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| i just think that if someone has a bad experience with something and knows that someone else has too. then i believe that it is good to warn others. they may never have a problem and thats good but if they do at least they were warned before hand. i agree we shouldn't start a war over something like that and opinions are needed but experience is the best teacher. no harm intended. just help |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 4:40 am
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Well, in many cases PayPal is the only option for me, living in Norway.
A regular bank transfer/money order takes too long for most sellers to accept, and will cost me about $45 in fees to have it done faster ('faster' being 7-10 business days).
I have used Western Unions "BidPay" on some occations, when the seller has accepted that, but how can I know that is any safer?
So in at least 80% of my eBay 'adventures' I'm pretty much stuck with PayPal whether I like it or not, especially now that eBay owns PayPal.....
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 5:05 am
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| i listened to that pay pal conversation. i'm just thankfull that we didn't lose any more than we did. we will never use pay pal again. remember this is just one mans experience. so don't blast me over it. |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 10:05 am
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| . [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 07:40 PM.] |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 10:34 am
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Often when you deal with small web stores, you will enter credit card information on a "secure" web page. You see that little lock icon, and you feel safe.
I have discovered that it's a fairly common practice for the vendor to receive the order via an insecure email from the web server. So, even though your entry process was secure, the back end process that emailed your order to the merchant was not!
Large merchants and web-savvy small merchants (like Carter) understand that they must access your credit card info directly from the server via a secure connection.
Back to the subject: PayPal froze my account once. I mis-entered some numbers from my credit card, and they thought my account was being hacked, For about a week I couldn't withdraw funds. The process for getting it unlocked was low tech and arcane (fax!), but the resolution of the issue was satisfactory. They erred on the side of caution, and I see that as a good thing.
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Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator |
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 10:57 am
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| at least we have your clear opinion jim |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 2:06 pm
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i'm in the same boat as Steinar
(not really a viking ship)
considering my location, i too use paypal
'cause it's convenient, quick and secure.
i'm hip to the fact that there are quite a few folks (outside of this fo') that have a legal gripe against paypal - so be it
so far i have'nt had any trouble so i'll keep usin' it
i also use Intl postal money orders, Bidpay (which i like the least) and bank to bank transfers
i'm not complainin' they've all done me good |
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 2:20 pm
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| hey guys i just want everyone to know that i was just warning everyone about what could happen (because it did to my wife). i'm not trying to start ww3. i know that everyone has a right to their opinion. i think one guy has allready lost his religion over the subject. but i just want it clear we had a bad deal with pay pal and so have some others .so beware it could happen to anyone. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 2:23 pm
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| I've received similar class action notices from three difference credit cards. I think there are a lot of lawyers that make their livings filing these suits. Not that they aren't justified - they probably are - but financial institutions will do whatever they can to juggle the numbers in their favor. It's the nature of the beast. |
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Jimmie Martin
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 2:55 pm
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| bob i read that if you cosign a loan lets say for your kid to buy anything at a different bank other than your bank that if you deposit any money in your account they will take a payment out of your money to cover the payment for the other loan (if it is behind)at the other bank. bank. |
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 3:48 pm
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It works like this;
When I see a lap steel on eBay that I really really want, in most cases I can either pay with PayPal or don't buy the guitar at all. Do any of you really expect me to let that sweet '57 National (or whatever) go, just because I've heard some ugly rumours about PayPal? No way.
When I buy my Jagwire strings from b0b I pay with PayPal so I don't have to wait for 2-3 weeks for a check/money order to arrive so he can ship those strings to me.
It's not a matter of being a 'fan' of PayPal or not, it's a matter of accepting certain realities, and as long as I've been spared of any bad experiences, I'll continue doing it this way.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the warning signs, and I want to learn as much as possible about how all this work, considering how much webshopping I do these days. But for now PayPal still looks like one of the better alternatives that's out there, at least for me.
Steinar
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www.gregertsen.com
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William Peters
From:
Effort, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 21 Aug 2004 4:30 pm
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Jim,
Chill out. Go ahead and use PP, I for one don't care.
The user agreement you quoted here is not the one I agreed to. PP changes the user agreement frequently. The one that used to be up on their web site flatly stated that PP could suspend an account at their discretion for any reason whatsoever. Who knows what it will say tomorrow. I have no reason to go read their user agreement anymore, since I no longer have an account. I should have said "according to MY paypal agreement" though.
Then there is the question: "are a company's policies legally binding on the company"? Everything you quoted was a policy as stated in the agreement, not a promise. A user has to agree to the policies. I see no such requirement on PP's part, since they are free to change the agreement at will provided they are breaking no laws. I'll let you figure that one out.
I choose not to do business with them. You may choose otherwise.
BTW, none of this has anything to do with the spoofers and spammers...its strictly a matter with PP.
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Bill
http://www.wgpeters.com
Mullen RP SD12U, ART-SLA, Tubefex, Vamp-Pro |
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William Peters
From:
Effort, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 22 Aug 2004 7:09 am
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b0b,
| Quote: |
| I have discovered that it's a fairly common practice for the vendor to receive the order via an insecure email from the web server. So, even though your entry process was secure, the back end process that emailed your order to the merchant was not! |
Thats the way my cc processor works (2checkout.com). Someone places an order, and I get emailed with the details. HOWEVER, the customers credit card info is not included in the email. Only their shipping address and the item list they purchased gets emailed to me. In fact, it is not possible for me to see the customers cc info, even if I log onto my 2checkout.com account. So the most that someone could find out by intercepting the email is that someone ordered a CD, or solid silver wire from me. Its neither necessary or possible for me to see the customers cc info.
I would hope that all the cc processors work in a similar fashion.
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Bill
http://www.wgpeters.com
Mullen RP SD12U, ART-SLA, Tubefex, Vamp-Pro |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 24 Aug 2004 10:37 pm
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I've had hundreds of successful transactions on PayPal and eBay, buying and selling, but I'm backing away from PayPal and retreating to money orders. My one experience with PayPal horror was ultimately innocuous: an eBay seller from whom I won an item had his account frozen and couldn't accept funds for a purchase. Shortly after emailing him (none ever returned) about alternative payment methods, I noticed he was (not a registered user) at eBay. I emailed him that absent a reply, I was considering the transaction null and void. So, even though this may have been a PayPal issue or an eBay issue, still the testimonials of the afflicted (and on some sites, the ex-employee/managers of PayPal) have convinced me that the convenience comes at too high a price.
PayPal is not worth the risk. This from a veteran of hundreds of transactions and thousands of dollars moving in and out. |
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