The Steel Guitar Forum

Is it possible to get instrument sounds from BIAB that are somewhat realistic? I have a good audio card (Delta 66). I assume I need good instrument samples also.

Peter, Try loading in the VSC3 from the BIAB installation disk. It is a set of Roland samples and give them a listen. They usually sound better than your sound card.
Jim

Isn't that what 'sound font' files are for???

Presuming the answer is 'yes', and your sound card supports it, can't you purchase the 'sound font(s) of choice and replace what's in the default bank or add them to new banks? And then, as required, configure the new setup with BIAB's 'advanced options'? --Everett

I'm not sure about the Delta 66, but I have a 1010 at home and we use 44s at work, and neither of them has any sounds built in at all. They are audio interfaces for recording and playing pack wave files. BIAB will need to be configured to control an internal synth, such as you get built into a Soundblaster, or even an on-board audio section of your motherboard.
Alternateively, and for better sounds, you could use an external sound module (The Roland JV1010 is cheap and sounds good) and control it via MIDI.
Unlike some interfaces, M Audio cards are quite happy to work in the same PC as a Soundblaster.
Cheers
Dave

Just keep in mind that BIAB has no sounds what-so-ever..All sounds are produced from a general MIDI module which is either embedded in your PC or Laptop Operating system , an additional software MIDI sound module/sound card or a real honest to goodness outboard midi module which can range from a few cheap bucks to a few thousand. OR if you just happen to have a high end Electronic Keyboard handy you can use that.

The answer to your question is subjective...YES..BIAB can input information to a sound module that will give you fine sounds, but ya gotta have a good sound module , sound card or external module.

But on it's own, BIAB is not a tone or sound generator. But you probably already knew this..

T

When I find the installation disk I'll try the VSC3.

I know my Delta 66 doesn't have any sounds. I have a good synth but it's in another room. I know that's dumb but major restructuring is required before I can get my computer equipment and music equipment in the same room.

The motherboard has built-in audio which I assume is SoundBlaster compatible. I don't know how to tell if BIAB is using it. I enabled it in the BIOS after installing BIAB. In 'MIDI Driver Setup' it says that every soundcard user can choose "General MIDI ..." and that's how it's setup.

I assume that VSC3 is a software synth or sound module and that's probably my best bet if I can find that disk.
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Peter Timaratz on 13 December 2003 at 06:56 AM.]</p></FONT>

I think from version 11 and up, BIAB supports GM2. This makes a huge difference in the instruments supported. I think GM2 supports over a thousand different instruments. I recently upgraded my external "tone generator" to a unit that supports GM2 and it really made a big difference. It is an Edirol made by Roland and is rack mountable. On your BIAB there is a place you can click your mouse over GM2 and pull up all these additional instruments.
BTW, have you ordered the new BIAB, version 2004? Just in time for Christmas!
Erv

I tried some GM2 sounds and they do sound better. Except for rhythm guitar which stills sounds cheesy. But my synth doesn't have good guitar sounds either. I guess I'll mute that track.

Are the newer sound modules capable of producing a good rhythm guitar sound these days?

I installed VSC and it does sound quite good. Even the count in sounds better.

The rhythm guitar part still sounds like an accordian though.

I listened to a few of the demos for Styles Set #26 - Classic Country and the guitars sound ok. I guess this depends on how the style is made.

I use an external JV1010 module as well. I think VSC sucks and immediately deleted it. Perhaps it's better these days.

I usually do basics in BIAB and then midi it to calkwalk where you do real editing. Like several programs it allows you to input a real instrument as a wave file, where the guitar you put in sounds like the guitar you put in.

That said, it is totally amazing if you can play a little keyboard what can be done at home with that box on your desk. Nearly every instrument at your command with a mouse click.

Oh, to have had this power 30 or 40 years ago.

I use a Delta 44 sound card and an Edirol (Roland) SD-20 Studio Canvas sound module with BIAB 12 and Power Tracks Pro Audio 8. This setup is as good as I'll ever need.

I am using Windows XP, and when I check the "Sounds and Audio Devices" in the Control Panel, under the "Audio" tab, under MIDI/About, it shows that I am using "Microsoft Software Wavetabel Synthesizer Featuring Roland Sound Canvas Digital Samples". Sound's as good as my friends Roland M-50 sequencer and Sound Canvas module, to me.

IMHO, of course.

my vote is for the VSC plus i go the extra mile and record each individual track seperately onto my digital softare(bass-drums-piano) that way i can EQ each instrument individually.if you're recording this helps a bunch i think. litle bit of a hassle but worth it.

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

I recently used a BIAB style called HOSSANAH for a song I wrote. I was blown away by the quality of the finger-picking guitar part. I used the Virtual Sound Canvas to render it, and it sounds pretty good to me. The bass part isn't too shabby, either.

If you have time for a 4MB download, you can hear my song demo here:
http://soundhost.net/b0b/Jump_For_Joy_demo.mp3

The bass, percussion and fingerpicked guitar are BIAB tracks. The steel, rhythm guitar and (ug!) vocals are me. I just did this to teach the tune to the band - I really didn't expect the BIAB parts to be as good as they are. I'll be very happy if we can replicate those parts live!

And of course I won't be the singer when we perform it.

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<font size="1"><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax</font><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 30 December 2003 at 09:32 AM.]</p></FONT>

I don't know what song style it's under, but there's a style called "Chet Atkins" that really has some nice picking in it. I use it for some of my gospel song tracks: ie. Great Speckled Bird, Will the Circle be Unbroken and I'll Fly Away.
Erv

With today's powerful computers a software sound module should be able to sound just as good as a hardware module. Has anyone tried any of the high end alternatives to VSC?

What are those "alternatives", Peter? I see the sound libraries in Keyboard magazine, but I don't understand how you would connect them up to BIAB.

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<font size="1"><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax</font>

Like I said the first day this thread was started -- Isn't this what SOUND FONT files are for??????

Most computer sound cards create the noise in one of two ways: FM or WAVE synthisis. Basically, FM takes a purely electronic sound and modifies it to emulate different instruments. WAVE also applies a certain amount of modification but is starting with a wave sample of the ACTUAL INSTRUMENT(S).

We all know how huge a good quality .wav file can be. Presuming a SoundBlaster or other 'WAVTABLE' type card, the sample files that were included in the package might range from 2meg's to 8meg's in size. All else being equal, larger sample files are better. Many web sites offer sample files much larger than what came with your sound card.

There are 'sound fonts' for the complete General Midi sets and there are sound font files for specific instruments. There are poor, good, and fantastic quality samples available -- often FREE.

If you have a 'wavetable' sound card, you should also have utilities to load sample files of your choosing and also to alter the individual instrument samples. SoundBlaster card users should click the SB icon to get to the 'Soundfont' utility. Or do a hard drive search for *.sf1 or *.sf2 files to get an idea of what is currently available on their machine. The 'sf2' is the newer and better standard.

Once you've decided to aquire and load a better sample set into the card, some applications - like BIAB - may have to be configured or have files created/modified. There is extensive help on the web for many common app's. For BIAB, a 'pattern' file must exist to marry up the standard GM patch numbers to where the appropriate sample sounds exist in the sound card's 'bank'.

I'm NOT an expert at this stuff and I've not attempted to provide more than the basic idea. When things settle down and there's time to experiment, I will setup my system and post some details. --Everett

Bobby, Here's what I've learned so far. There seems to be two categories of software that use samples - soft synths and soft samplers.

The soft samplers are what I'm focussing on. They come with a good collection of samples. They have different packages of samples that range from 1GB to 8GB. The products I'm looking into are SampleTank, Hypersonic and Gigastudio.

They all use a plugin technology - either VST or DX on Windows. BIAB 2004 is DX capable. I don't have that yet but I bring the tracks into Cakewalk which supports both.

I'm beginning to suspect that no matter how much you spend on good samples, there will always be a weak link for someone using BIAB or any MIDI software to generate steel backing tracks. MIDI and sampling don't seem to be capable of generating rhythm guitar that sounds really good.

Everett, High end sound cards don't actually have any sound generation capability. So my card doesn't accept sound font files.

Maybe I have a good set up because I just don't hear the same things that every one is talking about here. Either that or my ears are hooked on garbage being played from the radio/TV & CD's.
I'm running BIAB 2004 now and before that it was version 12 which I upgraded from version 11. I'm using a PCI SoundBlaster live card with powered speakers along with the VSC software and have found that the guitar, bass, piano, drums, & even the violin sound good on some of the tracks I've done. BIAB 2004 also has a software program built in it that allows for pitch correction and harmony on vocal input which it never had to my knowledge before. I played around with this last night and purposely sang out of pitch to see how well it corrected this and I must say I was pleased. I even added the harmony with 2 above and 1 below which ended up sounding like I had 2 female singers and another male singer. I'll be adding this to my web site in the help files as soon as I can get to it as I'm certain people would like to know how to use this part of the program.
If you want to make a professional CD that sounds like you have a real band along with you then you need to get a real band.
We still can't forget that this is a software program that costs less than 100 dollars for the basics and it gives the best that it can to produce a track to record or play with. I'd like to know how many of you could go out and rent a studio plus all the musicians needed to cut a CD for under a hundred dollars.
George

What Ken said! JV 1010 all the way. I put my own rythym guitar down to most of the tracks i want to use anyway.

Several people mentioned the JV-1010. I'm thinking of getting a used one. Is anyone using this with the serial connection in XP?

<SMALL>MIDI and sampling don't seem to be capable of generating rhythm guitar that sounds really good</SMALL>

And never will, Pete. Sure, you can sample 50 different acoustics with pro mics, but the sound of the rhythm guitar comes from an accomplished player's skillful strumming. You may be able to get away with a single note line or an arpeggio, but the lack of articulation is a dead giveaway to a trained ear. That being said and to answer your question, I'm using the Roland Serial MIDI connection for my sound canvas in XP (Sonar) and I have the drivers you need. Email or post here if you have any questions on the serial connection.

I happen to be a fan of swing fiddle and have an inexpensive Yamaha PS220 keyboard I use for a sound module with my BIAB. I have never found anything (VSC included) that made me as satified, as the Yamaha does, with the fiddle sound. Different strokes, I guess.