Question

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Why all the negativity about AOL?

I keep hearing how bad it is. I have had it for almost 5 yrs and love it. With the lone exception of getting knocked off the line, I have no problems with it. And I am not sure getting booted is AOL's fault but rather the medium that permits me to connect to AOL. I believe this because I recently signed up for 3 free months of MSN (to see if I would like it). I get knocked off MSN also on periodically.

So, would someone tell me what is so bad about AOL? And in comparison what are some things that are better with other ISP's?

Thanks,

carl

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Carl, it's the proprietry thing. AOL uses their own proprietry software. You are not free to chose how you dial in, etc. I realize you can use Internet Explorer, etc but you are still locked in to what AOL wants you to do. I don't have any ads popping up, and I DIDN'T get random disconnects or busy signals when I was on Earthlink dialup.

Disconnects are not a way of life. If you are getting disconnected there is either a problem on the line or AOL has a problem. Since most people thar are on AOL get disconnects I would suspect it's AOL.

AOL seems to have some e-mail restrictions that the "regular" ISP's do not have. I see notices throughout the web about "AOL users click here" as it has to be handled differently. If I download a file, I don't have to be concerned with the size of the file, where AOL limits download files to a certain length and again I've seen some download sites that will split large downloads into several parts just for AOL users.

MSN is not a good comparison. MSN wants to be another AOL. You have to compare it to a "real" ISP. There are many local ISP's that provide outstanding service (there are some that are crap too) and many will even provide personal service and some will come out to your house and set up your computer to run with their ISP.

Last, if AOL was that great and better than ice cream or girls, they wouldn't have to have all the commercials, "free" CD's, "free" time, etc to lure users to their service. And, once they have you they don't want to let go and will try anything to keep you, where a "regular" ISP will not hassle you if you are moving or need to change service.

One concession, for someone that is a novice and new to computers and the internet, a service like AOL, Compuserve (owned by AOL), MSN, etc is good to start with and learn what to do. But, after that point it's on to "better" service.

The housing development I live in, now, has a lot of retirees and many are getting computers and going on line but have never really had any computer experience. I have a lot of these people as clients and my reccomendation is to start with AOL and "learn" then go on to a real ISP and most have not stayed with AOL long due to frustrations and problems.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Carl, I too have used AOL for several years. I used to be very frustrated with getting bumped off, often threatening to quit, but I haven't been bumped off now in probably over 2 or 3 years now, so they must have improved that. And I do not get any pop-up advertising, such as Jack describes. I think I changed my settings to block them a few years ago, so seeing popup ads is an option you can shut off. I really don't have any complaints about them anymore. One thing I really do like is that, for $5/month more, I have the AOL service that will read my email to me over the phone, using an 800 number. Boy, is that helpful, when you're traveling and can't get to a computer, in an airport, or wherever. You can't reply to the e-mail, unfortunately, but you can call a toll-free number and a lovely, feminine voice will read your emails to you, using pretty good pronunciation most of the time.

Maybe others are dissatisfied with AOL, and I sure have been in the past, but I have updated my opinion, as they have updated their service.

(As for 'carpet-bombing' the country with free AOL discs, that's just good marketing. It's not, as Jack suggests, a sign of a poor service. If it was such a poor service, it wouldn't have the lion's share of the market. THAT's the index of whether the service sucks or not; people can leave the service anytime they want to. If they were leaving in droves, AOL wouldn't have such a large market share.)

I'm not saying AOL is the "best"; it probably isn't, especially if you're a computer expert who needs to do special things in special ways, perhaps like Jack. But I don't agree that it sucks. Just my $0.02

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I used to get "pop-up" adds. I then found a way to stop them. Also I can restrict emails.

I suppose I am not savvy enough to miss features that I don't have. All I know is, I enjoy AOL to the fullest. I use the features I like extensively, such as their chatrooms. I am soo familiar with my way around it, I can say I love it.

Maybe I am missing something. I don't know. But with the lone exception of getting booted off line occasionally, I have nothing to complain about. Incidently I am getting booted less and less now. Maybe whatever it is that's causing it, is being corrected.

Different strokes.......I suppose.

God bless you,

carl

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

My new computer a couple of years ago came with one years "free" Gateway. I had the same problems with it....painfully slow resulting in frustrating disconnects. I used it two months and then gave it back and subscribed to a cable.....No problem with it. The primary cause of disconnects may be the slowness of telephone connection service.

Craig Allen · From: BEREA, KENTUCKY, USA

As Jack has said, IT'S PROPRIETARY !!!

It takes over YOUR system, and DICTATES the perameters.

If you insist on dealing with AOL, and are frustrated with getting booted off line, then please get one of the progs. that will keep you on line. Stay On, or Stay Connected. Either of which can be gotten at CNET, or ZDNet. Also, find a prog. that will seek out and destroy TROJANS!!AOL is extremely easy to hack, and beleive me it's done regularly.It's a proving ground or test platform for up and coming hackers. Also, generaly stay out of chat rooms.

Then there's all that preciuos online time spent "downloading updates" !!!!!!!!
What a waiste.

Another thing I don't like; I don't like ANYONE keeping tabs on me. It might seem a little 'Orwellian', but they know EVERYTHING you do. You are wide open to whomever wants to know about you.

As to MSN.........There is another name for MicroSoft; "The Evil Empire," and for what a lot of us feel is good reason.

Jack said it best, and politely. So I just thought I'ld drive it home.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Carl, for me it's price. All I ever will need is an ISP. Those fancy directories and menus do nothing for me. I want an ISP that will let me stay logged on for several hours...for less than $10/month.

Can AOL do that?

Bob Shilling · From: Berkeley, CA, USA

Another reason goes back to when they first started up. Internet activity was a lot more focused on usenet (newsgroups) then, and a lot of aol users started posting on there with a lot of clueless behaviour. Anyway, an xxx@aol.com address became somewhat synonomous with "clueless newbie". This epithet is probably now no longer justified, but the aftertaste remains.

------------------
Bob Shilling, Berkeley, CA--MSA S10, "Classic"

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

"As Jack has said, IT'S PROPRIETARY !!!
It takes over YOUR system, and DICTATES the perameters."

C Allen,

what part of my system did they take over? What paramters do they dictate? I go on it when ever I want to, which is about 8 hours a day most days. I use what ever I want to use and have not had a problem using them. (Save the disconnect problems which are becoming less and less.)

I frequent the chatrooms often. Even host my own all the time. I have never known of a problem they caused for me or my computer.

I am NOT being facetious or trying to be argumentative. If they are causing me problems, what is it? I want to know.

Thanks,

carl

Bill Crook · From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance

C Dixon.... (and others)

It's obvious that you've never had a cable or DLS connection.....

If So ,,,,,,
Then you would lambast the AOL ISP as you would know how bad you are treated,tracked and overall bashed around by a ISP that still operates like the user is a "Box of rocks".

No flame intended here but I,like so many others, have had to endure the rigid AOL guide-lines that it's often beyond belief what happen to your system if you are trying to get a large file or other formats. Often I canot get it across to many new computer folks that the "free" or "cheap" ISP systems is the main source of their problems.

Like another person said...
"AOL is for the Novice player"

Then One WILL go to a better service..

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

I think that AOL is probably the best service for chat rooms. They have the widest coverage in that area, and they are easy to use (for chatting).

For the things that I do and have always done online, AOL is pretty bad. I want as direct of a connection to the Internet as I can get. AOL basically inserts their system between you and the net. They cache web pages and trash images - two big no-nos in my book.

Also, I use other protocols on the Internet that are quite unrelated to AOL. If I were trying to access my department's VSS database with an AOL connection, for example, I would have concerns about security and efficiency (if it worked at all).

I'm not sure whether AOL can provide the high speed throughput I've grown accustom to. I have a 768k SDSL line at home and a 1.5M ADSL line at the office. Could AOL even keep up with those connections?

The bottom line is that I want a very thin layer - as thin as possible - between me and the Internet. InReach and PacBell provide exactly that. I use whatever browser, whatever FTP program, whatever mail program, and whatever other add-ons suit my fancy. I don't have to worry about AOL "compatibility" - if something works with TCP/IP, I can use it.

And I don't do chat.

------------------

-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
-System Administrator

Gary Pederson · From: Van Nuys, Ca.

When I bought my current pc (about 6 mo. ago) it came preloaded with software for 3 or 4 ISP's. Best I can remember the AOL software was about 75 meg. The other ISP's were like 5 to 15 meg. I immediately deleted all of them. My ISP doesn't require any client software, is very reliable & cost $40.00/yr. (its a local ISP).
I understand AOL 6 sends only HTML formatted email. I'm on a majordomo email forum & everytime someone sends in an HTML formatted email it gets broadcast in plain text followed by the HTML msg, which includes all the HTML formatting code. What a pain & waste of bandwidth.
I tried AOL 3 or 4 yr. ago, I'm sure alot has changed since then but that was the worst internet experiance I have ever had. It was unbelivelably slow. Also, it was very difficult to get thru to their tech support.

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

Hey Carl -

You've mentioned that you play your Excel ~10-12 hours a day. I guess that with your 8 hours of AOL time, you must get by on little sleep, huh?

Dan Dowd · From: Paducah, KY, R.I.P.

AOL is great for beginners with their first computer. Its like training wheels when learning to ride a bicycle. After you learn to ride, you take the wheels off. I have a DSL hookup with bell south. I can stay connected 24 hrs a day and have never been kicked off yet and the speed is fantastic.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Oh, I should add that I would certainly try DSL if they offered it in my neighborhood, which they don't, unfortunately.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Cable will sure "spoil" you for anything else. After some recent experience with telephone connections, I think I might just "give up" on the computer world if I had to move somewhere where DSL is not available! Gene

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Cable and DSL are two different services. They are both "broadband" but are provisioned differently. DSL is provisioned by the LEC (local telephone company) and uses the same line as your voice telephone as long as it meets certain conditions (such as max 18000 ft from the telco central office).

Cable uses the TV cable companies facilities and is independent of the telephone line.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

I stand "corrected".

Dan Dowd · From: Paducah, KY, R.I.P.

Comcast Cable in Paducah KY,has the cable service but it still needs a connection to the telephone line when uploading. Thats why I went with the DSL service.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Dan, I think DSL is the way to go, if you have the option. With DSL, you are the only one on the link to the Telco office. From there you are multiplexed with other links but that is normally not a problem.

With Cable, you are generally on a "party line" or "LAN" type connection. The speed that it works at doesn't seem to hinder the operation unless there are a lot of subscribers on the local loop.

I am going to find out how well cable access works. I'm moving next week and can't get DSL at the new location but I can get Time Warner Roadrunner service.

Dan Dowd · From: Paducah, KY, R.I.P.

Jack, not all cable connections use the telephone line. I have a friend in Pittsburgh PA and his is all cable and does not require a phone line hookup. I opted for the DSL because i could get rid of my dedicated phone line and didnt like paying the Al Gore 2nd phone line tax.I bought extra filters and have 6 telephones connected to the system and it works great. The cost here for the DSL is $45/ month which is $2 more than it cost for the extra line and ISP. Im wondering if I can use my regular internal modem for use with my fax program.

[This message was edited by Dan Dowd on 27 July 2001 at 03:33 PM.]

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Dan, yes, you can use your fax on the "voice" part of the phone line like you would normally do. You will need a connection with a filter to the modem.

I know about the full cable, which is what the Roadrunner service is. It doesn't require a dial up to send. One of the dish TV networks does that, provides high speed downlink to the PC via the dish but you have to have a dial-up connection for the uplink part.

The DSL service I now have is only $40 per month, but I had to sign up for a year to get that price. Telco installed a new demarc box on the outside of my house and did the filtering there. Don't have to use the filters on the voice phones, just plug them into the phone jacks normally. The DSL is on the second (black/yellow) pair and the only thing is to rewire the telco wall jack that you use for the DSL.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Does AOL work with cable modems?

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

"Hey Carl -
You've mentioned that you play your Excel ~10-12 hours a day. I guess that with your 8 hours of AOL time, you must get by on little sleep, huh?"

Steve,

I detect a bit of "facetiousness" in your remarks (as I have in others directed towards me in the past).

So let the record show:

1. I never said I played my Excel 10-12 hours a day.

2. NO post I ever wrote says that.

The posts you incorrectly quote say 2-10 hours per day!

I am 100% retired. And love every minute of it. While waiting for the vast amount of remodeling we are having done, I have alternated ALL my time between playing the Excel and being "on line". NO other activities at all.

If you want verification of this, simply call my wife and she will be very happy to tell you how I do nothing else any more. Which she tells ME daily about!!

And often in no uncertain terms!! OK

so I am in a rut. But never have I enjoyed ANYthing soo much. And it is a lot cheaper than chasing an ellusive little white ball all day long!

I would appreciate it very much if when you attach numbers to my posts you would be kind of enough to state them correctly, so as to not imply to others that I was indeed exaggerating or in worst case, lying.

carl

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

Hey b0b; AOL does work with cable modem....I have it.
Simple TCP/ISP connection.....and works great.
Ricky

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