The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi Folks. I'm seriously thinking of selling my ~83 NV400 amp (excellent cond., btw) and I figured I'd list it on buy-and-sell here.

The thing is, if someone wants to buy it, how in the world do you ship something big and heavy like that? I truely have no idea how I'd pack it either, who I could trust to handle it, or what it might cost. Any experienced insights would be much appreciated. Thanks, -Dave<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Dave Horch on 20 September 2006 at 02:42 AM.]</p></FONT>

First, you can get a box for it from Guitar Center or another larger music store - they love getting rid of old boxes. If not there, you'll probably have to spend 25 bucks or so for two boxes from the UPS store or somewhere to make one large enough.

Rule #1 - pack it so it'll survive a 6-8 foot fall onto concrete. that's how high the conveyers are at all shipping warehouses.

To do that - fill the *inside* of the amp with bubble wrap to keep the speaker(s) and chassis from coming loose.

Wrap the entire amp in a layer of cardboard, strapped tightly with clear strapping tape. Wrap *that* in at least 2" of bubble wrap - the large bubble type. Then use 4-6" of hard white foam in all corners of the box, and fill the balance with foam peanuts.

The hard foam stabilizes it in case of a fall - the bubble wrap allows it to "float". The peanuts are extra padding in case of impact.

DO NOT waste your time writing "this side up" and/or packing it "upside-down". the automated machinery in the warehouses don't recognize those things, and the humans move things however they can and do not pay attention to that stuff - it's a complete waste of time.

If you pack it that way you'll be fine - and an amp box or NEW cardboard helps in case anything does go wrong and there's a claim.

I've shipped about 35 amps and never had a problem packing like this and using UPS. I've received several packed using just peanuts, or newspaper, or something else light weight, and I've had damaged amps show up when that happens.

Shipping cost depends on location - go to the UPS site and you can calculate it. Get the weight from a bathroom scale and add 10 pounds for packing materials, and measure the rough size.

It's a couple hour's work the first time you do it.

Hope that helps.

Click on Shipping Amps here http://www.gregcutshaw.com/ for some pics showing how I packed my Nash400. Other good ideas there also. I have also packed them with 6" thick foam corners made out of 1" thick foam insulation. Similar factory corners that Peavey uses are shown on the above page. Basically this would suspend the amp inside the box at all points by 6" and the amp would easily survive a drop to the floor.

Greg

Greg's pictures and descriptions are really helpful. There are two things I don't really agree with though - 1) the use of plywood is great from a protective standpoint, but will (on a coast-to-coast shipment especially) kick your weight and shipping cost up darmatically; 2) the exposed amp handle is brought up often, and it's not helpful except at the pickup and delivery ends,; it leaves an irregularity in the box that can cause conveyor hangs...which cause; falls; you've left part of the item shipped exposed, which will kill any insurance claim - even if damage was internal or on the other side.

But the foam and double-boxing are theways to go for sure. and again, I can't stress enough the need to pad the INSIDE to prevent speaker and chassis movement.

Last note - I assume the NV is a SS amp (I'm not up on Peavey stuff), but when shipping a tube amp remove any tube not covered by a "can", number it with a Sharpie, include a corresponding chart, and bubble-wrap the tubes/put them in the back, which is then filled with more bubble wrap.

A sheet of 1/4" plywood weighs 25 pounds. The 26" x 26" sheet adds 3 pounds to the shipping weight. The last two amps I shipped were totally boxed (no handle exposed) and had thick foam in all 8 corners. In this case there is absolutely no need for a sheet of plywood or ANY cardboard covering over the amp. The peavey corners are the best I have ever seen and whoever designed them must be a genius. They provide total suspension of the amp and appear to be able to take a hit and give without collapsing. Very little cost or material used to make them. Also the double walled cardboard is a must and Peavey uses that also.

Greg

What ever you do... Do not use the styro foam peanuts.
Everybody hates this. I even had a steel amp manufactuer charge me extra because he had to clean the whole amp from it before he could do repair on the amp.

The peanuts shift around and do not protect the amp at all.

Go for bubble wrap, styro plates and card board.

Just my 2cents.

Dag
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Dag Wolf on 21 September 2006 at 08:29 AM.]</p></FONT>

Rule #1 Never ship UPS
Rule #2 When in doubt refer to rule #1

I am a UPS shipper but have quit using them due to internal damage, no matter how well you pack, trust me!

I use FedEx and they arrive much better and cheaper!

If I were shipping an amp I would check with Greyhound Bus Lines and see if they have a bus that goes from your point to the destination point for the amp and if so I would strongly consider putting it in a box with corner supports that Peavey uses, (they can be found at a music store who sells Peavey), then I would put it on a Greyhound Bus. I gave this advise once before on the Forum and someone posted that was bad advise so I guess you can have a bad experience no matter how you do it. The 1/4 inch plywood protecting the face is almost a must and pay particular attention the protecting the control knobs should they take a direct hit.
Jerry

I agree with the bus suggestion. I have used them several times with good results. The package is loaded in the belly of a bus, which is low to the ground. Even if it's transferred to another bus, it's done by hand and moved on to a hand truck and loaded in the belly of another bus. Less likely to fall a great distance.

Hey Dave ,no need to do all that packin.I'll just drive down there and pick her right up if the price is right.I can be there in an half hour.
Denny

I've shipped 50 amps via UPS and had no claims. I really think they're all about the same, and the secret is in the packing; although I will say both Airborne and FedEx have been the least reliable for me as far as on-time and delivery reliability.

If you pack right - check my post - internal damage isn't an issue.

Rule #1 is actually: Pack for a 6-8 foot fall onto hard concrete. And that's no matter who you use.

Well, my friend I have packed for an earthquake. Including shrink wrap, followed by a heavy felt pad and then a binding strap aound the amp. After that bubble wrap, a cardboard front to protect the grill and more shrink wrap and then I put it in a box. That box was put in another box with bubble wrap. That Super Reverb went to California. They dropped it so hard it bent the chassis straps and the front control plate. Fortunatley the binding strap saved the cabinet from craked corners. A common problem with Fender amps, especially the 70's and later model with knife joiont corners.

Seen it several times. They drop the boxes off of conveyer belts for a good 4-5 foot drop into wooden bins. That is no way to treat an amp! I have shipped well over a hundred amps myself. The only damage I have had was always UPS.

Now file a claim, that is even more fun!

The only way to file a hassle free claim with ups is don't insure it and just ask for the standard 100.00 claim of course if you're shipping a 500.00 amp you can't do this.

My story goes like this I shipped a used computer to my brother inlaw a few years ago and it arrived damaged beyond repair thru ups. Well I had it insured for 150.00 I fought and had to take the computer and box to 3 different inspectors and it (the case) even went before a review board of sorts. In the end an upper management manager said well if you would file the claim for 100.00 or less we do not contest it.

Well I liked to have a fit I said you mean I've spent over a month and drug this darn computer to 3 different inspectors and the very 1st person couldn't tell me what you just did? Well needless to say I would have settled for the 100.00 in the 1st place and not even had to take it any where,

He said for 100.00 or less you can just take a pic and send it to them and if it looks damaged they send you a check LOL! Can you imagine my frustration trying to get that extra 50 bucks and the computer was only probably worth 100.00 to start with.

I guess I have lived and learned I cringe when I have to ship anything or even have anything of any value shipped to me.

Just last week I bought a guitar from a fellow forumite from NC from Joey Gaskisn and he shipped it thru the usps and by the way he did a great job packing it and the amp he sent me. Anyway it arrived without a scratch and I know a lot had to do with Joey's great packing job but I wonder if the post office is any easier on the packages?

By the way if anyone ever wants to buy or sell anything to or from Joey by all means do so with confidence he was a pleasure to deal with and the guitar looked like it just came off the showroom floor. Thanks Joey.

Bob

I've heard a lot of anecdotal stories about UPS being worse than FedEx.

The only objective info I've seen on this was a study done by consumer reports. They measured excessive force (each package included an accelerometer), lost packages, and on-time delivery.

USPS was the winner, with UPS not too far behind. FedEx trailed badly.

The study was done several years ago, so the story may be quite different by now.

Lynn

I think many times we often let a personal experience be the rule of thumb. And then tell everyone else what the facts are..


it's not that simple.

these carriers, each of them ship thousands of packages everyday..if one was totally negligent they would not be in business.

I ship UPS exclusivley.

Never had an issue with an amp or Guitar..or a Steel..perhpas 10 Steels and 8 or 10 amps over the past few years. 4 Steels within the last 6 months...

And although my buddy Jim doesn't like my method, the Steels were sent with the handles exposed, not fully, but a slot in the outer box so that they could reach down an inch or two and grab the handle.

Although I do ship about 300 items/year for my wifes business, we do file maybe 4 claims/year .

For anyone to state

"IT'S A FACT" is inaccurate..

It's not a fact that UPS or any other carrier is bad or better..they are all basically the same...

considering the volume of materials being sent by each..they are all doing a fine job.

Pack them appropriatley and all will be fine...

Now on the other hand, LOST and never found is quite a different subject...

One I have dealt with the PO and FED EX about...

These carriers are now ON LINE..and if any one of the hubs or locations is OFF LINE..especially when our package may be going thru the system, thats pretty much where they can/will loose track of an item.

Another method to ship is GreyHound...

Send it on a Bus ride....

an amp such as a NV 400 is VERY heavy..and requires some serious thought when packing.

Some poor soul somewhere is gonna have to pick up a 70 pound dead weight item waste high..you better warn them.

On another thread this week someone commented that FED EX is 33% cheaper.."IT'S a FACT".

On Thursday I sent my company Laptop back to Ct from NC overnight..Fed Ex had already picked up, so I sent it UPS, ( arrived no problem) UPS cost was $71..Fed EX cost was $69..for the same delivery and time service...thats not 33%....so there goes the It's a fact theory..<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 23 September 2006 at 02:36 AM.]</p></FONT>

Thanks everybody.

Let me ask you this: How about if the NV400 is shipped in "pieces". Amp section taken out of the cab and packed in a separate box? I would think it would be safer, as long as the buyer was okay with it. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this too. Anyone done it this way? Thanks again, -Dave

Peavey just shipped me NV112 by UPS. It was packed in a standard 48lbs edge crush, 100lbs weight limit cardboard box with no special strapping tape. Inside, the amp was supported at each corner by hard, molded, cardboard pyramid-shaped supports (the corners of the supports fit into the corners of the box – top and bottom – and the corners of the amp fit into the supports), that left a one-inch space between the box and the amp on every side of the amp. The space all around was simply filled with heavy-weight wrapping paper. I would suggest you email Lori Stogner (lstogner@peavey.com) who is with Internal Sales, and ask if she will ship you their standard shipping carton for the NV400 (complete with packing materials). I would bet that the nominal charge for the carton and shipping would be cheaper and more secure than a jury-rigged solution.

Ed

I agree with Ed 100%. Peavey has by far the best packing I've seen. See pics of the corners Ed is discussing here at my web site.


Greg


<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Greg Cutshaw on 05 October 2006 at 08:14 PM.]</p></FONT>

Actually, manufacturers as a rule do a much weaker packing job than private shippers, and are well aware of it. They figure some shipping loss is more than made up for by the reduction in packing cost of thousands of units. That's from the horse's mouth.

The described Peavey shipping system I wouldn't use in a million years - it will NOT handle the possible 6-8' drop onto concrete. But again - the loss of a few $200 amps (at cost) vs tens of thousands in heavy-duty packing is a no-brainer.

and regarding UPS, vs, FedEx, vs USPS - everybody has their favorites, or their bad-luck shipers. Generally all their procedures are pretty close. I have had tracking dificulties with the postal service...plus the hassle of having to stand in a line to ship something,,,and FedEx has had a habit of leaving things unsecured. So I pack like a maniac, use UPS, do all my shipping online, drop the packages at a UPS store for no cost, and have had no claims. Lucky? Maybe. But it works for me. The handle isue is somthing I've ben told by UPS arehouse managers (I deal with them on floor coatings), so I heed their advice, especially after being shown a few examples of what happens when a handle opening hangs on a conveyor.

<SMALL>Let me ask you this: How about if the NV400 is shipped in "pieces". Amp section taken out of the cab and packed in a separate box? I would think it would be safer, as long as the buyer was okay with it. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this too. Anyone done it this way? Thanks again, -Dave</SMALL>

One more time... anyone?

Hundreds of amps are shipped safely every year using the methods on my web site or using the methods that Peavey uses. These are both very safe but not foolproof for the relatively rare instance that a higher than 3 foot drop occurs. Splitting the amp into separate pieces reduces the weight of each and allows the actual amp chassis to be packed in a smaller container.

I wouldn't agonize over this, just pack it and ship it one piece like most of us are doing (quite sucessfully). Life and shipping do have risks but in this case the risk is very minimal. I did pack one Nashville 400 and one Webb 6-14-E with the whole plywood, 6" foam, 2 layers of cardboard and they would easily have survived an 8 foot drop. I no longer bother to put that much effort into a $400 item and neither does the majority of major manufacturers and private sellers that I buy from.

Greg

Great photos Greg: makes sense of my tortured effort to describe those pyramid cones at the corners.

Dave, I’m with Greg all the way: don’t agonize. Given that Peavey ships in their cardboard boxes via UPS certainly urges the conclusion that Peavey has not had problems doing so. Same for Carter who shipped my new S-10DB a couple of weeks ago in a cardboard box with no packing or corner protection at all: just the case surrounded by cardboard. Yeah, stuff occasionally happens. Imagine, you encase your NV400 in a double-walled, fire-proof, steel case, mounted on springs. And SPLAT! . . . the carrier’s plane crashes.

Ed