53 fender Champ Question

Larry Otis · Post by **Larry Otis** » 17 Mar 2006 6:23 am

I just got a beat up old '53 Champ. All the wiring and electronics are original and have never been tampered with. I sprayed the pots and the tone pot acts as volume as well as the vol pot. What could be the trouble? Bad cap? Thanks Otis

Matthew Prouty · Post by **Matthew Prouty** » 17 Mar 2006 7:31 am

There might not be anything wrong with it. These tone pots and tone stacks are very lossy in the 5C1 and 5D1 series. It was not until the E series came along and sloved a lot of tone stack issues. The tone pot on the C series and D series attenuates the signal across a wide band. If it does not affect the tone at all, just volume then the caps are bad and it is attenuating all frequencies to ground. You can replace the caps on the tone pot and see if that helps, but it would be good to know what you are expecting. These tone stacks are very rudimentary in their design.

M.

George Manno · Post by **George Manno** » 17 Mar 2006 7:36 am

There might be a hairline crack in the cap. About a year ago I asked the same question here when I purchased a BR6 at a yardsale. The cap was changes and the guitar came alive.

...and the beat goes on.

GM

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 17 Mar 2006 9:23 am

This should be in Electronics, not No Peddlers, so I've moved it there.

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Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 17 Mar 2006 12:19 pm

Larry, On an amp that old, I'd replace all the caps and check all the resistors.
There are not a whole lot of parts in a '53 champ so it shouldn't be expensive and you wind up with a reliable, stable, amp.
For safety, you should also replace the old two wire line cord with a modern 3 wire with a 3 prong plug.

Blake[This message was edited by Blake Hawkins on 17 March 2006 at 12:31 PM.]

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 17 Mar 2006 12:52 pm

Well first of all you just gotta replace the electrolytic caps. I'd start there and then see what you've got happening. Those are surely dried up and bad by now. They were probably bad 25 years ago. That's a pretty simple amp so it shouldn't be too hard to get it up and running, as long as the transformers are working.

Brad

Larry Otis · Post by **Larry Otis** » 17 Mar 2006 1:55 pm

Thanks guys. Shoulda
made it clearer...I meant a Champ lap steel...not an amp. Otis

Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 18 Mar 2006 6:15 am

Oh! That's very different.

Blake

Ron Victoria · Post by **Ron Victoria** » 18 Mar 2006 7:10 am

I've had a few old laps over the years that had the same problem. A new cap always solved this. Sometimes I had to use a different value to get the best tone range.

Ron

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 18 Mar 2006 7:45 am

Hehe...I was really puzzling at first - since early champ amps don't HAVE tone controls!

As far as the guitar, it's either a bad cap or some crossed-up wiring. there's usually only one cap, so that's where I'd start. I seem to recall a ,047uf as the usual value. A .022 rolls off less trble; a .1 rols off a lot more, almost acting like a volume control. The existing one could be bad, either drifting or shorting. Either could make it act somewhat like a volume control.

Seems like this ought to b ioved *again* - to "no peddlers"...[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 18 March 2006 at 07:46 AM.]

Blake Hawkins · Post by **Blake Hawkins** » 18 Mar 2006 5:58 pm

Jim, you are right about that. "No tone controls on a Champ Amp."
I should have caught that as I owned a Champ, but that was 50 years ago.
I traded "up" to a Deluxe which I still use.

Blake

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 19 Mar 2006 7:39 am

So now that we know it's a guitar and not an amp. I'd say first, if it's wired correctly, then it's possible that the tone cap is shorted internally causing the tone control to act like a volume control because it's grounding the entire signal instead of just the high frequencies. Or it's wired wrong.

Brad

Larry Otis · Post by **Larry Otis** » 19 Mar 2006 8:15 am

I tried a cap that works...same dang thing. I got a picture of the wiring harness for this model and it is wired correctly. I chcked all the connects and resoldered them if needed. I'm no electronics type but heck, it don't get much simpler than this. Maybe the pot? But wouldn't it not work at all if it was that? It still acts like volume. Thanks for the input. Larry

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 19 Mar 2006 6:07 pm

Larry, can you take a picture of the wiring for us?

Brad

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 21 Mar 2006 11:00 am

Might have an open pickup coil. Measure the resistance across the output jack with the volume and tone controls turned full up. Should read somewhere around 6000 to 8000 ohms. If it's way higher, the coil is probably open...Jerry

Adam Camster · Post by **Adam Camster** » 23 Mar 2006 4:45 am

My money's on the pickup coil, when pickups go bad they lose bass frequencys. As the tone knob cuts treble, when you turn it down you lose volume. Should be able to get it rewound quite cheaply. (if thats the problem)

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