135 watt SF Twins--do they give up anything...

Joe Shelby · Post by **Joe Shelby** » 1 Aug 2005 8:38 pm

...tonewise; as compared to their earlier,lower-powered silverface brothers?
On the market, the earliest sf's bring more
money (because some were actually constructed to bf specs--great for guitar players, not so much for steel players) and
the caveat that the farther you get away from 1968, the worse the build quality (components and workperson--ship). But if you have to recap, re-tube, re-speaker, mod,
how much difference does it really make tonewise to have an earlier sf? I'm asking a
lot here, I know.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 1 Aug 2005 9:55 pm

I think the 135-watt ultralinear-transformer Twin Reverbs are great-sounding steel amps, and normally less expensive than their earlier 85-100 watt silverface/blackface brethren. But I probably prefer the earlier models, especially since I also play guitar, and like mosts guitar players, I prefer the earlier models for guitar. My favorite, especially for a Twin Reverb, is the 1968-1969 models. The best ones I've ever played were from those years, strange, eh? Most people moon about blackface Twins. My current large Fender is a '69 Dual Showman Reverb head (same guts as a '69 Twin Reverb). But if you want a real clean sound and more volume, the 135-watt ultralinear may be better.

All this said, I think it depends very much on the specific amp. I've played good and not-so-good examples from every era.

On repairs, it's my view that any pre-1980 amp (> 25 years old) is in one of two states: either it has been overhauled fairly recently, or it needs to be overhauled. Especially power supply filter capacitors have a useful life of perhaps 10-20 years, and if one is looking for clean juice, the power supply is critical.

I reluctantly have to agree with you that the build quality was better, let's say pre 1971, in my experience. But the later silverface amps are still very good amps. I just wouldn't assume you can get away without servicing a late 70s ultralinear model. I would pay no more than 1/2 to 2/3 the price of a late 60s silverface to get a late 70s silverface, in the same condition. All my opinion, of course.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 2 Aug 2005 12:24 am

there a a few schools of thought going on here..

I personally used to subscribe to the "Better Quality back then" theory but do not anymore.

Components are WAY better today than back then and yesterdays POWER SUPPLYS cannot even be compared to the power supplys of today, like mentioned above, this is super criticle.

If a purist wants early an 60's Blackface then thats good..but it does not mean it's gonna be better than todays amps.

Todays RI amps are very good but in reality they are not the same as the early versions.They do look the same though.

They are like Elaine says..They are exactly the same, just different...

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 2 Aug 2005 5:38 am

In my experience, the late '70s ultralinear 135 watt Twins, Dual Showmans, and Vibrosonics are the best amps ever made for pedal steel. They have a little more clean headroom than the earlier 100 watt models - it's like your volume knob goes to 14. So you get more bang for the buck, and for the weight. One of these amps will play as loud, and have better tone at top volume (and at lower volumes) than a 200 watt solid state amp. I prefer them in head cabinets, to split up the weight, and to give flexibility in speakers.

Six-stringers prefer black-faces, or the earlier silver-faces that can more easily be moded to BF specs. But that is all about crunch, early breakup and top end distortion. None of which I want for pedal steel. They are a little warmer at low volume, but you are then carrying around a bunch of weight and power at the top end that is unusable for steel.

The real top of the line for pedal steel are the rare 140 and the more common Super Twin. The 140 is a head with the 135 watt ultralinear guts, and no tremolo. In addition to the usual four passive tone knobs, there is a 5-band active EQ with sliders. You can switch between the two EQ systems, so you basically have two switchable EQ channels. The Super Twin is like the 140, but has a couple extra power tubes to get 180 watts...like a Twin whose volume knob goes to 18. It will match the volume of a 300 watt solid state amp, and have clean tube tone all the way to the top. The only thing that can beat that is two Twins.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 3 Aug 2005 3:38 pm

I doesn't hurt to have a pair of EV's to soak up some of that Super Twin attitude, either!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 4 Aug 2005 3:03 am

Playing thru two Twins ?

A month or two back I went to see Paul F and Brent M. play at 3rd and Linsley..Brent was playing thru TWO TWINS..

I was sitting at a table right at the bandstand..but not for long..

Later on during the second set I basically ran and hid from the TWO TWINS...

Whats better than TWO TWINS..? Three ?

No doubt these are the GUITAR AMPS of ALL decades...

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 4 Aug 2005 6:03 am

I would have to agree with a lot of the comment's here, especially the additional clean headroom that you get from the 135
watt version .... I've had a few different Twins, and I'm happy with my 135 watt model with original JBL's ....I also have a cab that I can run with it that has EV's in it to balance out the sound....Those JBL's can get the wax out of you ear's at times..
The EV's smooth out the tone ...If you're a guitar player, check out a Tweed Twin if you can find one !!.... What a tone !!...Jim

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 4 Aug 2005 2:59 pm

Hooked up my '71 Twin Reverb in stereo with my Super Twin----ohmagawd the tone! I kept it down to about 3 1/2. Original '69 shobud pickups with 10 6L6's , 4 jbl K 130s and one EV 15L in the equation. You might try to hide, but the Super Twin will always find you! HA![This message was edited by James Morehead on 04 August 2005 at 04:04 PM.]

Per Berner · Post by **Per Berner** » 4 Aug 2005 10:12 pm

I bought a 135W twin with JBL speakers new in 1980 (way over my budget as a student), and used it with pedal steel and a Telecaster for ten years. When it worked, the sound quality was good for both applications. It needed regular servicing, ate tubes, got hot enough to fry an egg on and weighed over 110 pounds.

I traded for a Roland JC120, which sounded just as good, weighed 50 punds less and did the next ten years with no servicing whatsoever.

When I got my Nashville 1000 I finally found the perfect steel sound.

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´75 Emmons p/p D10 8+4, '96 Emmons Legrande II D10 8+5, Peavey Nashville 1000[This message was edited by Per Berner on 08 August 2005 at 04:26 AM.]