The Steel Guitar Forum

If you play with a distorted sound, which do you think sounds best with PSG?

1) A stompbox (e.g. fuzz, overdrive, bosstone, etc.)

2) An effects processor (e.g. various rack mount units or digital amp modelers)

3) An overdriven guitar amp

I personally prefer the sound of an
overdriven guitar amp.

I've tried a RAT, TUBE SCREMER & METAL ZONE
which are all good but I never can play with much volume without feedback. What am I doing Wrong?

Thanks Jerry.

Jerry, you may have a microphonic pickup. Try singing through it with the distortion on (I'm serious), and have someone else check if they can hear your voice through the amp.

Personally I prefer the sound of pickups that's a little microphonic because they tend to sound more alive and resonant, but used with distortion they feed back easily if they're too microphonic.
The cure for this, besides rewinding, is to give it a good wax bath. The wax will tighten up the windings and make it less microphonic.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Jerry, Steinar has a good point. If you do try to dip your pickup, it is recommended to use 70 % parafin and 30% mineral oil. You heat the mixture and dip the pickup. Bubbles will rise from the coil as all the gaps are filled and your pickup should cease to be microphonic. The mineral oil keeps it from cracking or being brittle.

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David Spangler

I play two or three songs with distortion. I prefer to leave my amp settings alone, and use a stompbox when I need it.

I like the Fultone Full-Drive 2. Uses a tube to distort and compress the sound. It does the job for me.

Ron

I'm pretty sure that the Fulltone doesn't use a tube...its pure SS - you wouldn't know it though both in price and sound.

It is voiced with absolute sweetness, and as soon as I sell one of my real tube preamps, I'll be getting the FT/FD2.

Once you start in with the stompboxes, there is an unending buffet of flavors to try out. Defintiely the easiset way to add distortion to a stage rig. The best Lap Steel distortion I've ever gotten was with a Roland GP-100 effects rack unit. Wonderful. The other day I did a session at Tree Sound here in Atlanta and the engineer pulled out a sweet Buddah amp, I ran my Maxon Overdrive in front of it and it sounded fantastic. Next time I have a spare 2K...

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com

<SMALL>I like the Fultone Full-Drive 2.</SMALL>

Funny you should mention the Fulltone, because I just ordered one half an hour ago. I've been looking for something to replace my Route66 overdrive (very good, but it's not quite there), and since I already have a Fulltone Clyde wah, and love it, I checked what Fulltone had to offer in the overdrive department. The Full-Drive 2 demo just blew me away!

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

I like the VooDoo labs Super Fuzz.
Trips my trigger!

The single best thing I know of is to split your signal somehow so that you can blend the distorted signal with some straight tone. This lets you play chords without totally overloading the sound, and opens up a much wider variety of sounds, like setting your stompbox to a total heavy-metal scream - but then only blending that in as 20% of the signal, which retains a nice round sound yet with an appealing aura of danger.

Most big-time, rich rock stars with roadies to tote everything for them just run into two (or more) amps and have the sound guy trained to turn up different mikes as they're soloing and stomping on boxes. There are blend pedals around and splitter boxes too, and you can use two channels of the same amp. There's a pedal called the Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive which has a blend control, this would do the same thing.

I just split my signal with a Y-cord, send one side to a Boss graphic EQ then into a little minimixer, and the other side into a MXR compressor then into either an Ibanez Tube Screamer or a Tube Works Real Tube box with a 12AU7 tube, then that goes into another channel of the minimixer. It's definitely not suited towards rapid stage changes, but I have control of the tone on both the distorted and clean signals as well as the proportion between them.

I've reached the point where I cringe when I see an under-blended guitarist step over to stomp on something for his big solo moment, because often as not it comes out sounding like a psychopath sledgehammering a flock of ducks. Tends to destroy the romance of the moment, for me.

Next time you see a psychopath sledgehammering a flock of ducks, would you sample it for me? Sounds like just the thing my guys need for their NuMetal track.

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Cheers!
Dave

Hey guys,
I use a George L 10-1 pickup but still get feedback, must be a gain structure problem.

Thanks Jerry

Yea Larry, that Voodoo Labs Superfuzz is killer. But it's a Hi-Z fuzz type design and can be real noisy in a bad environment. But usually it's just great. The Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive is also a great Tubescreamer with a clean blend knob. Good stuff.

Brad Sarno

Yes Brad, its a killer pedal and thanks BTW for recomending it a while back! I put it between my steel and the Hilton pedal and it behaves itself...after the Hilton, was a little noisey. Love it for my Strat as well as my Lap steel!

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Sho-Bud ProII, Pro III custom,
Fender Steelking,Hilton pedal,Tut Taylor "Virginian"


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 04 February 2005 at 01:01 PM.]</p></FONT>

Thanks Tom

About the tube... I could easily be mistaken. Anyway it does the job for me.

Ron

Here's my very biased viewpoint.

A good deal of the playing I do is with some sort of 'distortion' happening, due to the sessions and live playing that I do. Even in my clean steel playing, there is some sort of distortion hiding in the background, because I like to use tube amps, and I like the sound of the power tubes being driven.

So here's the take:

If what you want is to do an extreme overdriven processed rock guitar sound, there are a bunch of effects that can do that. Any of the stomp boxes and efx units can give you a realistic compressed generic rock guitar through a Marshall stack to give that 'who hoo it sounds like a rock guitar' vibe. IMHO the worst of these is the BossTone, which to me sounds like the worst of the San Francisco Psychedelic rock sounds (think Big Brother with Janis).

I have been persuing a good rock and roll/blues sound for a while. My gold standard is what I sound like on stage with a great guitarist playing a fantastic sounding guitar through a killer amp. If I play a stomp box or efx unit through a steel amp (or another transistor amp) to me it sounds like a pale imitation of what the other guy is doing on stage. If I can go head to head with a great rock or blues guitar player, strictly on tone, then I know that I am in the zone.

Based on this criteria, here's my evaluation:

On a scale of 1-10:

BossTone through a Session 400 -10
Boss Gx700 into a rack: 3
Pod into a rack: 3
Rocktron Cameleon into a rack: 2
TrueTone FullDrive2 into a transistor amp: 5
TrueTone FullDrive2 into a sweet fender: 8
THD Bivalve: 10+

IMHO, it's the amp.

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www.tyack.com

My blues / country / rock player buddy here has a Hughs and Keltner 3 stage tube foot pedal.
He has a serious Mesa Boogie rack and amp, but wanted this to use with his Princeton.

Well he likes it so much he uses it with the Boogie on stage too.

A clean setting, a gritty setting and a full drive setting.
All of them with very good and useful control settings.
I want to try it 1st on my bud some time.

Lately my rig of choice is PSG or Tele (I have to double) to volume pedal to Radial JX-2 Switchbone to BF Deluxe Reverb and BF Vibrochamp (with a 10"). I crank the Champ and switch it in along with the Deluxe for extra grind. For gigs where you really need the stage volume, it is BF Pro Reverb and BF Princeton Reverb. No more messing around with all the flavors of distortion stompbox.... but you have to tote two amps.

I agree with Dan, you can't do better than a tube amp turned way up. IMHO that is because the power tubes are distorting, which gives a superior sound to the preamp tubes distorting. Best distorted tone I ever got (in studio) I had an old stock blond fender delux amp on 10 in the studio, while I was picking in the control room, so I could get a good mix (and preserve my hearing). Played though the monitors, not cans and let that delux bounce around the room.

Jerry, Would your amp be leaning against the leg of your guitar by any chance. This transfers the vibrations of the speaker right back into the guitar, and causes feedback.

As with most things, compromises are part of life....I have still not been satisfied with my distortion situation...used the boss stomps and currently a Deucetone Rat....it feeds back like crazy.. also there is so much noise when i play more than two notes together,given how small most stages are, I am not able to put much distance between the steel and the Nashville 1000 i am using...i thought that was the feedback source..even in practice situations i sit fairly close to the amp..maybe 5ft to the pickup on my Derby. From reading this string, am I only going to get a compromised distortion since i have switched off my Fender Twin and been using the Peavey exclusively? It has been suggested that the pickup is microphonic and that waxing the coil is the answer...listen guys i am all thumbs for the most part and not so adventurous in that area...if i had to make a living with my hands, my family would be living in my car...so if somebody could give me explicit instructions on pickup dipping i would appreciate it, for the most part, i have been extremely happy with the Nashville and i dont want to be hauling both amps around.. in short, dont like the garbled sound when playing more than 2 notes together and the feedback problem..any suggestions?

I prefer the soft clip of a pair of pushed 6L6 output tubes, but that sort of volume is painful. I'm looking to the amp emulators (POD, etc.) to provide the sound and save our ears at the same time. The jury's still out, though.

I really hate that hard clipped diode sound (BossTone and similar boxes). The only stomp box distortion I've heard that sounded remotely musical was a Rat.

Let's not forget the role that speakers play. Is it even possible to get a good distortion sound trhough an aluminum dome JBL? I have my doubts.

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<font size="1"><img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Bite the bullet---look over at what the standard guitar players are using and go buy some of it.

Steel players for the most part live in a world of clean tones while the rest of the pop world lives in a dirty tone world. They got these mega watt amps and pristene speakers and that little rack sitting next to them with the sterile sounding verb unit and a gizmo hanging off one of the guitar legs that corrects the impedence of the signal and it sounds----very clean.

I love Dan's "Bosstone" rap. That thing is still worshipped by many pedal players.

There are so many things to stomp on and crap out your beautiful clean sound that you have spent years and hundreds on. The most important thing is to get a grip on what a good distorted sound is. That is a concept that has really never been experienced by the steel community. Too bad Emmons and Green and the rest of them used those awful sounding bumble bee sounding things on their records. If they had used Marshall stacks then pedal players would not be light years behind in getting a tone that is not rooted in 1956.

I am ranting, please excuse me.

Maybe the POD XT will replace the Jordon Bosstone.
All the pedal players could go buy one and press the same buttons and dial up the same distorted tone that they all agreed was acceptable. We would still have to endure them pretty much sounding alike but hey, we sort of do that now.

Edit for bOb. I saw the Allman Brothers in 1970. Betts and Duane each played through a Marshall stack with eight 12 inch JBL D130s. All kinds of aluminum cones just staring at you and plenty of distortion with a nice bright edge to it due to the JBLs. It can be done.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 11 February 2005 at 04:51 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Hatcher on 11 February 2005 at 04:52 PM.]</p></FONT>

It seems that part of the job is to inhibit sustain when emulating a guitar. It's well known that a guitar "direct" without enhancement is a pretty sorry source of music... effects and compression/sustain are almost necessary to give it much voice at all. Pedal steel, on the other hand, has bunches of sustain.

It's the ARC of the note, that gives electric guitar its "thing". I noticed this in the 90s on Smithereens recordings, where they used 6-string Rickenbackers thru Marshalls, and played rolling arpeggioed open-position chords, and it all got thru because the notes didn't have much sustain... each note died out as the new one came on, and therefore, they could share the overdrive without crapping out.

I have some old bar with (maybe) bakelite around a metal core. It's bigger at the back end than at the nose, and this evens out the sustain on the low strings (which are the first to suffer when a lightweight bar is used).

This helps. Lots of so-so distortion sounds become real contenders when I use this bar. Maybe some machinists out there could do some experimenting?

-dean-

I get GREAT distorted tone from any steel I use... No big secret really... TURN the TREBLE DOWN!!... If you use your "clean" steel setting you'll get that fuzz buzz crap happening,,, cut the treble,use a good bluesy sounding pedal like a Boss Blues Driver or Ibanez Tube Screamer,and use a compressor in front of it...

You'll get long singing sustain and an overdriven amp sound.. NOT nasty fuzz.. SOOO many fine steel players have sweet beautiful clean sound and instantly sound like dog dirt when they overdrive... It needs to have an "overdriven" sound.. NOT a "Fuzz" sound.... I think the big Peavey solid state amps are the reason so many guys have trouble getting musically pleasing distortion. The best way to get it is with a good "OVERDRIVE" stomper,a COMPRESSOR before it,and a TUBE amp.... bob