Is this a difference between Goodrich & Hilton?

Al Terhune · Post by **Al Terhune** » 30 Nov 2004 8:43 pm

I'm not looking for a "better" contest between the two nonpot pedals, but it's my understanding that the Hilton pedal also includes the sustain unit that Keith has available. Does the Goodrich also have a similar sustain built in to their potless pedal?

David Spires · Post by **David Spires** » 1 Dec 2004 6:24 am

I'm sure that there are a lot of differences, from a technical level, and Keith Hilton will probably chime in and educate us on them.

I use the Goodrich LDR, and have never used the Hilton - just because I have always used a Goodrich, and hadn't had a big enough reason to change.

The biggest difference I am aware of - or at least that impacts me, is the Hilton uses an infra-red light source (meaning that any ambient light does not affect the pedal's performance). Now, the LDR uses a Green LED, and if there is enough sunlight on an outdoor gig, the light will not let the volume shut completely off. This has caused me to throw a towel over the pedal a few times during soundchecks this year.

This issue may cause me to try a Hilton pedal in '05. I really don't know the answer to the sustain question, but both pedals keep a consistant tone for the full travel of the pedal. I will say that once you play a potless volume pedal, you will never want to go back...

My $0.02,

David Spires

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Steel Guitarist for Jo Dee Messina: Carter D-10 8&7 / MSA Classic D-10 8&5; Line 6 Pod XT; Jagwire Artist Series Strings; Walker Professional Players' Chair; Peterson VS-II Tuner; Goodrich Matchbro & LDR Pedal; and BJS Bars

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 1 Dec 2004 9:10 am

Keith has mentioned that the 'Sustain' in his unit is essentially a matchbox: a unity gain buffer amp. Both the Goodrich and the Hilton have this circuitry built in. I doubt that you'd notice any difference in sound between the two pedals. I have heard the comment David mentioned about bright sunlight and the Goodrich pedal. I have two Hiltons and, other than a funky power supply on the older one (with the outboard, detachable power supply). It just don't get no better, sound-wise. It is TOTALLY TRANSPARENT and passes through all frequencies at all volumes.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Susan Alcorn · Post by **Susan Alcorn** » 1 Dec 2004 12:51 pm

A couple of years ago, I bought both the Hilton and the Goodrich pedals and spent (way too much) time AB-ing them, and I had a hard time really telling the difference between the two of them, but there are subtle differences. I ultimately decided to go with the Goodrich because I felt that the action was a little easier and the tone more transparent (the Hilton, in my opinion, colored the tone a slight bit, though it was a pleasant change, and for, country gigs, probably better, but that's not what I was looking for). Also, Goodrich answered all my questions promptly and were very kind to me when my equipment was all stolen. I never got a return e-mail from Keith Hilton. So, to make a short story long, they're both good volume pedals, but I preferred (two years ago) the Goodrich.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 1 Dec 2004 5:55 pm

Thanks for the kind words about my volume pedals. Susan, I am sorry I missed your e-mail of years past, I don't recall ever getting it. If you ever need it, here is my home phone number 417-581-4158. Susan,if I can help you with anything in the United States, let me know. Susan, here is an interesting story: I got the Hilton pedal you used to have, in for repair after you traded it off. According to our records from the serial number,it was originally sold to a fellow in England. The fellow in England was "into" electronics and had altered parts in the pedal. When we got the pedal in for repairs the sound quality "SUCKED". Meaning it had poor sound quality. I don't know if the guy in England was trying to copy the electronics or what, but every part had been removed and marked on the circuit board. Susan, I wish you could hear one of my pedals that someone has not fooled around with. Almost all the major shows out of Nashville use my pedal, and most all of the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame members have purchased my pedal. I really don't know anything about the Goodrich products. I do wish the people at Goodrich the best, and I think they are honest and good people. I have made it a point to not look at other people's products, because my inventions are original, not a copy. It has taken several years, but I finally got my patent approved by the U.S. Patent Office. My provisional application is not finished, because we are attempting to broaden the patent into other areas, namely from just a volume pedal to audio equipment and industrial controls. My provisional patent application involves how I control voltage, and my clutch system. Again, thanks to all the people who use my volume pedal. A special thanks to my favorite band--Dicky Overbey, Bobby Flores,Jake Hooker and all the other great players in Texas! If you want to hear some great music, buy some CD's from Dicky, or Bobby. Bobby has a web site. [This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 01 December 2004 at 05:57 PM.]

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 2 Dec 2004 7:40 am

I am sharing a gig with another steel player that uses a Hilton, and I was able to switch sets between the Goodrich and the Hilton. Both are excellent pedals, but I thought I sounded more like "me" with the Goodrich, and went with that one (plus I love the little green glow that pours out of the Goodrich pedal

). Either one fills the bill nicely, just went with the one that fit me...

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 2 Dec 2004 2:46 pm

Goodrich and Hilton pedal owners both seem to love their pedals. I have had great service from Goodrich for many ears and the LDR is what I use.
Hook

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HookMoore.com
Allen Moore

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 2 Dec 2004 4:28 pm

Everyone in the Florida Steel Gutiar Club, that use an electronic volume pedal, all have the Hilton.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 2 Dec 2004 4:45 pm

I have not tried the Goodrich but I sure love the Hilton pedal.
Jerry

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 4 Dec 2004 1:06 am

I bought a Hilton a couple of years ago and recently I bought a Goodrich.
Soundwise I cannot hear the difference, but the action feels very different to me.
I don't mean the "friction" but rather the way the volume tapers.
The Hilton feels like it has a perfect linear taper, but the Goodrich has a more "logarhythmic" type of action. I have to be very careful with the Goodrich not to sound like "pumping" the volume and I feel I need to re-learn that pedal.

Did anybody else notice that difference, or is it just me?

I love both pedals, but I can't make up my mind yet what I like best.

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Peter den Hartogh
1970 Emmons D10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
Internationally Accredited 3D Animation Academy

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 4 Dec 2004 4:57 am

Well, I would guess I have used just about every pedal known to man, starting with a homebuilt in 1948.As some of you older pickers know we had a lot of junk gizmo's in those days.But it sure was easier than trying to twist knobs while playing. I have two Goodrich pedals and they are a fine pedal. When I plugged in the Hilton pedal I knew the long search was over.I am sure that both manufaturers offer good service and support. I have first hand knowledge of Keith Hilton and he has went above and beyond with advice and service.If and when someone comes up with a better one I'll no doubt buy it.When you pay half the price of your guitar, for an amp why quibble about the cost of the pedal? My problem is I now have the best equipment but, it sounds like the same old guy picking, just a lot better sound coming out.
Old Bud

PS: did you notice ,I didn't one time mention Brad's Black Box..Yeee Haaw..

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 4 Dec 2004 5:50 am

I would like to mention that I have a Hilton and the customer service you get from Keith is top notch. A couple months back he spent some time on the phone with me trying to cure my problem. Turns out it wasn't even the pedal. He is also a heck of a player.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Dec 2004 7:02 am

I have a Hilton, and it is essentialy invisible in the recording chain.
I also like the throw of it. There are some controls underneith that alowed me to tune in the foot position and the cut off for my feet. A very nice set up.

I haven't tried the Goodrich, nothing against them, just never had the opportunity.
But the comments about outs ide light interaction and the linear vs logrhythmic characteristics, make me glad I got the Hilton.

Smoother for my poor right ankle, and no issues of light bandwidth interferance.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Dec 2004 9:35 am

I have been using a Hilton for a while now. I am very happy with it. While I was on the road I called Keith with the kind of obsessive compulsive detailed problems that steel players come up with. (I pity the poor soul who deals with the steel playing public !) He knew exactly what I was talking about and gave me a simple fix over the phone.
No problems.

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Bob
intonation help

Paul Matthews · Post by **Paul Matthews** » 5 Dec 2004 2:24 am

Anyone know ehere I can pick up a Hilton in either the UK or Europe?

With the current exchange rate, US purchase is tempting, but there is normally less hassle buying in europe.

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Absolute beginner!
Bennet Freshman E9 3+3

joe long · Post by **joe long** » 6 Dec 2004 6:09 am

I have owned the Goodrich pedal for about 15 months and used mostly at home. Recently I started using it outside the home and on the jobs. The first time I noticed something different was the un-explained loss of power. I couldn't figure it out. The pedal just lost power. When I would use it at home there was no problem. This went on for several weeks before I discovered the problem.

The adapter at the foot back of the pedal apparently being hit by my foot. This is the connection which connects to the DC. My foot has been hitting this adapter and now the connection has become lose to the point that I have to keep checking the connection.

The reason I never experienced the problem at home was the amount of time spent behind the guitar.

As far at the pedal is concerned I like the pedal very much but wish I didn't have to worry with the adapter connection. It has become wobbly and lose.

I learned a long long time ago to always have a spare volume pedal with me and I never leave the house without one.

Jeff Strouse · Post by **Jeff Strouse** » 6 Dec 2004 2:51 pm

Does Goodrich (volume pedal) have a website where they can be contacted directly?

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 9 Dec 2004 7:16 am

I have the Goodrich, mainly because I got a pretty good deal on a "used" pedal that was actually new in box...

The green glow has been useful at least once when we were somewhere playing out on a stage that had a bunch of non-working outlets... pretty much wandered around with the Goodrich plugging into things, waiting for the light to come on

Glenn Porter · Post by **Glenn Porter** » 18 Dec 2004 8:12 am

As a professional musician, playing on the
road gig after gig, I must have equipment
that I can depend on, and the best sound that
I can get.
I use the Hilton.

GP

David Kurrasch · Post by **David Kurrasch** » 18 Dec 2004 8:59 am

I have not tried the Hilton yet, but I did try the Goodrich LDR. I did not like the taper at all, it worked more like an on/off switch than a volume pedal in my opinion. I did call Goodrich to explain the problem, and the man I talked to (I can't recall his name) was very nice and said it could be made smoother, but it would have required mailing the pedal to him so he could make an adjustment. Unfortunately, I did not have time to wait, since I needed a pedal for work, so I returned it an got their H10k pedal instead.

Bob Kagy · Post by **Bob Kagy** » 18 Dec 2004 3:04 pm

Interesting comment David, because I had one of the early Goodrich light beam pedals in the late 70's that had the same pattern.

I've heard others praise them but I could never accomodate myself to the abrupt change from low to high volume.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 19 Dec 2004 2:08 pm

There is a little square trimpot accessible through a hole in the bottom of the volume pedal, when you remove the bottom cover. It alters the gain/taper. Backing it off (CCW) all the way makes it behave like a passive pedal, with no gain. Rotating it clockwise adds some gain (I think +3 db) and makes the volume change from zero-to-on come on faster. I use it in gain mode on loud gigs and back it off on quieter gigs and recording sessions.

There is another trimpot, on the circuitboard, in the larger open area, and it is used to pad the load on the pickup, for the first input jack. This causes you to lose brightness, as desired by some players.

The second input is high impedance only, with full frequency transfer. The two outputs are wired in parallel.

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Bob "Wiz" Feinberg
1983 Rosewood Emmons D10 Push-Pull, with 8 pedals and 9 knee levers, Wallace TrueTone E9 and Lawrence L-910 C6 pickups and aluminum necks. Nashville 400 amp with Peavey Mod. Emmons pedalbar mounted, and Goodrich LDR floor volume pedals.
I use and endorse Jagwire Strings and accessories.

Keep Steelin' but don't get caught!

[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 19 December 2004 at 02:11 PM.]

Mark Kelchen · Post by **Mark Kelchen** » 20 Dec 2004 7:38 am

Question at this point in time may be "Who doesn't use a Hilton?" Susan, as Keith mentioned, perhaps you could try a Hilton pedal that has not been tampered with. Keith sends them out "Ready to Use" with no adjustments or tweeking needed. He has refined this pedal to accomodate nearly all players and if there are any issues, He will promptly take care of them. Good Steel player, great to deal with, electronics about 3 steps above genius and enjoys good music. I second the motion on Dickey Overby, Jake Hooker and the Outsiders. Some of the best I've ever heard!! Treat yourselves to A Hilton Pedal and some Hooker/Overby CDs. What the heck....It's Christmas time.....You deserve it!

One more thing.....After using a Hilton Pedal, just try and go back to a pot pedal. It won't take long to change back to the Hilton........[This message was edited by Mark Kelchen on 20 December 2004 at 07:40 AM.][This message was edited by Mark Kelchen on 20 December 2004 at 07:42 AM.]

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 20 Dec 2004 1:20 pm

David I have had no taper problem or any adjustment needed on my LDR. The throw of the pedal feels no different than the 120 I used before it..Mine has been a great pedal and trouble free..
Hook

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HookMoore.com
Allen Moore

Buck Grantham · Post by **Buck Grantham** » 21 Dec 2004 5:11 pm

I have been useing a Hilton pedal for over three years now . It works great and I have never had any trouble with it at all . Great product. Buck Grantham