The Steel Guitar Forum

Hi again.

First - thanks for the ongoing help on the rack style information.

I also need to buy some sort of "master controller" or "automatic patching device" that can switch/select the guitar, pedal, preamp, effect, poweramp, and cabinet that become engaged in the signal path.

I've outgrown my simple days of 1 guitar, 1 pedal, one preamp, one effect, one poweramp all in 1 chain.

I have many options for every step in the signal chain, and I want to select each component separately. (Am I dreaming here?)

There must be some kind of controller that can "select" or automatically patch between all the permutations and combinations of my multi-path signal chain.

eg. guitar#1 feeding Pedal#3 feeding preamp#2 feeding Effect#3 feeding poweramp #2 feeding Cabinet #1 ?

In most cases I only have 3 component options per "block", so no less than 729 permutations & combinations of equipment in the chain (yeehaa!).

Thx.

I saw someone demonstrating exactly what you are looking for at a Music Show last November.
It was mostly intended for people who want to use a lot of vintage effects units which often do not have true bypass circuits.
The good thing about it was that it all worked with relays rather than transistor switching, so it did not introduce any noise or signal degradation, but that also means that it wil handle high power signals.
That's the good news. The bad news is that I've just looked in my filing cabinet and I can't see the leaflet.
I'll see if I can find any more info for you.

------------------
Cheers!
Dave

Well since you are moving into Rack Effect land did you buy rack effects that are MIDI controllable? If you did or are considering Rack based effect you will find that many of them are MIDI enabled. Heres one for you to look at http://www.voodoolab.com/gcsystem.html I have an older version of there foot controller that allows me to change via MIDI up to 6 devices/effects at one time.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Alan Kroeger on 20 July 2004 at 06:57 AM.]</p></FONT>

Tom, in reference to relay switched circuits, please take the advise of a musician/elex-technician with a good education and 40 years experience.
Stay away from relays.Relays are one of the most trouble-prone devices ever invented. Rotary switches have the ability to clean themselves by their wiping action. Relays do not have this capability and are a really hard to clean. There are other drawbacks to using relays, too numerous to mention...... JD... P.S. I have learned a lot of new words while trying to repair relays. None of them will be mentioned here.

Hmm re-reading your post you do have a tall order here the Automatic switching between multiple guitars and power amps adds a bit of complexity. It would almost require two controllable mixer (MIDI) fairly expensive. There are a number of amps out there now that can be contolled by MIDI Fender CyberTwin for one but, your post implies separate (Rack Mount?) Power amp(s). It could be there is a Switchable Rack Powere amp out there though I haven't encountered it. Best bet look at what (Rack Mount)effects/Preamps you are considering or have and consider simplifying some of what you are trying to do cause the scenario you mentioned in your original post is complicated and fairly expensive. If you go with some high quality MIDI enabled Effects you can probably get 80 % of what you asked for done. http://www.computermusic.co.uk/tutorial/midi/2.asp
TC Electronics makes some of the best sounding MIDI enabled effects. I have owned a G-Major and it was quite versatile. http://www.tcelectronic.com/G-Force
I later swapped for the TC FireworX Amazing Echo, Reverb, Filter and Modulation effects but, discovered that it is slow in the patch change department. Still effect in the internal chain can be switched on and off and the unit can be bypassed quickly via MIDI so, that makes up for the slow patch change. I use this in conjunction with a Boss VF-1 (Multi Effect and a fast patch changer)which is mostly used by me as a versatile DSP preamp (it does more then that)
and leave the FireworX to do the Reverb and Ambient type effects and this combination gives me more then I need. So, perhaps you should evaluate what it is you really want/need to do and pick out a good combination that suits your purposes/goals best. Ah yes, do keep it in mind that this stuff can really start to cost you especially MIDI enabled relay based switching and MIDI enabled Mixers. Simple MIDI enabled Effect and a MIDI foot controller can likely get you most of what you want at a lower cost.

All of my 'new' rack stuff is vintage. No Midi. (Ooops...maybe)

Yeah there has been a bunch of MIDI enabled stuff around for a while. The newer stuff just has more extensive support for more parameters that can be controlled by MIDI. You see all the talk about the POD XT from Line six these are very good too. My preference is towards Boss/Roland and TC Electronics is a more recent discovery for me. If not for some very smart (and experienced) folks leading me in the direction of the newer stuff I would likely just still be using pedals and patch cords. Since they talked me out of my old Pedal head ways I am now a DSP/MIDI evangelist
One piece of advice I usually use as a disclaimer is 'It is best to use your own ears when considering the advice of others concerning audio equiptment' The stuff I now use far exceeds my own personal needs but, sometimes it seems it is good to use less then more even if your equiptment can do more.

Tom,

Sounds like this rig has to be versitile?

What application will this rack be used in? Studio, Stage, home or what?

Sounds like it is has a specialized purpose.

Inquiring minds, etc...you know....

------------------
Tim Harr - Carter D-10 8p & 9k w/ BL-705s; Webb 6-14E Amplfier

Mike H - I think those links are on the right track - now to find one that does "all" that I want....

Tim - I take it you're interested in one, too? Purpose is primarily studio for me. The possibility to qualify and fine-tune guitar sound & shape in real time with real analog vintage gear (using knobs!!) & eliminate the endless hell of switching different units in and out manually with patch cords, etc. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tom Gorr on 20 July 2004 at 04:32 PM.]</p></FONT>

If you don't mind plugging a couple of cords back and forth, you could just use a patch bay... it would allow you to tailor the units, as well as the order, in any way you like...<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Nicholas Dedring on 21 July 2004 at 12:31 PM.]</p></FONT>

John D., Right you are about the relays. Any mechanical connection (including a set of relay contacts) is an opportunity for a problem.

The automatic switches are brutally expensive...I have sketched out some schematics using rotary switches that may work nicely. However - what to do about the "popping" that will be sent to the downstream component. Could a capacity be somehow configured to mute "pops" without killing the fidelity of the sound.

Also, is there some silicon verson of a rotary switch?

Given the prices of the alternatives - I'm feeling pretty good about honing up my soldering skills !