The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 9:57 am**

I've tried asking this question on a Tele board, but haven't gotten any responses. I figured there might be at least one of you guys who could answer it:

I'd like to replace the stock bridge p/u in a std. MIM Tele to get the most "classic" (for lack of a better term) sound from the guitar (Richard Burton, Don Rich, Clarence White, Pete Anderson, etc.). I've narrowed down my choices based on preliminary research (cost and description of the sound) to the following choices:
1) Fender Reissue Original Tele Bridge P/U;
2) Seymour Duncan '54 Tele Lead; and,
3) Seymour Duncan Broadcaster Lead.

I have not been able to actually hear the Seymour Duncans, but I have played a Tele with the Fender Reissue in it. How do the Seymour's compare with the Fender? Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks.

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 10:48 am**

I have tried the S.D pickups in my '69 Tele...did not like them. I am now using the Texas Specials and they seem to work quite well thru the tone range.

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 10:53 am**

I think the pickups with the best bang for the buck are the ones made by Bill Lawrence. Bill and his wife are very personable and helpful.

Mike
www.billlawrence.com

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 10:53 am**

Tom, I am not sure which Tele' board you are refering to but clearly it is not this one linked here:
http://www.tdpri.com/

This is I believe the primary Internet Tele forum and the questions that you are asking are regular daily discussion.

Tele' pups are a strange thing. Many folks believe they can just change the PUP and it will sound exactly like so and so's Tele.

The 'Duncans in my view are a bit beefier with an accent on the mids and lows. The off shore PUPS are a bit thin with almost no lows. The Vintage set is closer to what the early Tele's sounded like. But another issue that is front and center is the Body. Which wood ? And then the Electronics, which pots ? We're starting to sound like Steel players again !

I personally would choose a vintage something or other in the Bridge position and a Duncan or a Texas Special in the neck position. It seems like Fralins and Armstrongs are very good mid to Hi end PUPS for the Tele as opposed to paying the big bucks for Bardons. Although Lawrence PUPS mentioned above are also well known.

I just added Fender Texas Specials to my 52RI and I don't like the bridge PUP at all. I lost all the bright twangy snap so the original is going back in but I will leave the neck TS there for a while. This is an Ash bodied Guitar.

Tele' #2 which is a MIM 50's Classic with a Bigsby B5, has Fender Noisless in both positions and I like these a lot as well. They're not quite the same as the 52RI but a nice bright tone just the same. This guitar also has an Ash body.

Tele' # 3 is a MIJ 1986 Squire. It needs something. Stock it has little or no bottom end. I am going to put the Texas Special in the bridege position and I have purchased a Gibson HB for the neck position . I have also changed the Top Loader Bridge to a String thru with Brass Saddles. The body is Basswood, might as well be Balsa Wood. I have also just purchased another 1 Piece Premium Ash Body so some changes are in the works down the road for one or two of these Tele's, but not the 52RI which is the main squeeze.

Try asking the same question on the Forum linked above. I have gained all sorts of knowledge and made many fine friends over there. Julie and Brent Mason just to name drop a couple. There is a ton of knowledge and an abundant amount of Tele' bangers over there. Drop in and join the fun.

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 July 2004 at 11:57 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 July 2004 at 11:57 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 July 2004 at 12:00 PM.]

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 11:18 am**

Thanks to you guys for the input -- it helps.

Tony -- that board is actually the one I was referring to ** BUT, I guess I didn't wait long enough before I spoke. I checked back just now and I did get a couple of responses.

What's a good source for learning how to do guitar electronics and for learning how the pots, etc. etc. effect the sound? Is it advisable to install a pickup with some type of connectors so that it's easier to change it out if you want to try different pickups? Thanks again for the input.

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 11:21 am**

You really need to check out Jason Lollar. He really knows his stuff when it comes to vintage pickups, is very approachable and has a quick turnaround time in getting your order to you. Plus he's a Forum Member here. If you order from Bill Lawrence, be ready to wait a minimum of 3 months.

Check out Jason's website, and feel free to send him an email he'd be glad to help direct you to what you're looking for.
http://www.lollarguitars.com/
http://www.lollarguitars.com/replacement_pickups.htm

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 11:31 am**

Hi Tom, I just posted a reply over on the TDPRI as well. Of those three you mentioned, I'd go with the SD Broadcaster. I've had real good luck with them over the past 20 years or so, I've had them in quite a few Teles. I'm a tellypicker from way back, and over the past 30 years or so of guitar picking, those have been real good to me. I'm from the Roy Nichols James Burton Don Rich school too. Over the years I've tried and still play Bardens, Fralins, 52 reissues, original 50's pickups, lots of different makes. Seymour does a real good job. These days there are good pickup makers crawling out of the woodwork for Telecasters, and to try and keep up would make your head spin. A year ago the buzz was all about Harmonic Design, then it was Jason Lollar, now it Alan Hamel pickups. I guess Seymour really started the ball rolling way back in the early 70's, didn't he?

Anyway, those broadcaster models will give you a good twang, and won't break the bank doing it.

Good luck in the hunt.

Jim Lutz (Ol' Tellypicker)

------------------
The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese...

[This message was edited by Jim Lutz on 14 July 2004 at 12:32 PM.]

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 12:04 pm**

Hey Tom, good , although I didn't see any posts refering to MIM Standards and PUP changes . But maybe I missed it.

What is the thread title ?

And give that board some time, it's a fine resource with many very experienced Tele'
bangers hanging out.

Concerning the easy in easy out , that would be extremely difficult as the strings would have to be removed or loosened to the point of replacement. But I hear what you are saying, I wouldn't mind having that flexibility myself.

Unfortunatley all we have now for a guitar such as the Tele' is the try it and see if ya like it method.

Get a PUP, get out the soldering iron, remove the strings, remove and swap the PUP, put some strings back on and give it a ride.

If you don't like it, at least you've got the routine down.

I would contend that this is easily done at home by even a novice. I generally plan changes when it's tiem for string changes which is generally every week if I am giging or maybe 2 or 3 weeks if not.

This is what Tele' do, not much different than Steel people.
t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 14 July 2004 at 01:20 PM.]

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 12:33 pm**

Tom, you might pose your question over at www.fenderforum if you haven't already. The guys on the Tele board seem really helpful and friendly.
I think you can do a search there too about your situation.

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 3:53 pm**

I bought a used MIM Tele, with a battery-powered EMG in the bridge. Somebody further modded the guitar, by using the other volume control for the neck pickup, so ther's volumes for each pickup, and no tone. BUT, I can blend the stock neck pickup with that EMG, and get all the tonal variation I want. Plus, it's dead quiet, even through my pedalboard.

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 5:13 pm**

Tom, look at Lindy Fralin pickups, he has a website, they are extraordinary in every way. JimP

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 5:51 pm**

I like the Duncan Quarter Pound Set for a tele, I don't care to try and make my Guitar sound like a 52 year old one, I have a Northern (hard) Ash Body From Warmoth, There is no need for a compressor with the sustain the Hard ash Body gives me, I get plenty of twang when I need it and plenty of good Clean Tone also, when thats what I want. I figure I'm in pretty good company with my pup choice, because thats exactly what Earl Erb uses on his Tele. I didn't get the quarter pound set because Earl did, he and I both chose them independently without knowledge of each others choice. I have been using them since the early 80's. Love the big 1/4" alnico 5 magnets in the bridge pup. They can be hot, but I adjust my bridge Pup down to the thickness of two quarters and then raise the neck pup for a volume balance, Works for me.

BTW
I have a Peavey T-60 tilt neck on this guitar and it beats the Fender necks hands down.

I have two othe Tele style guitars and of all three my fav is the 94 G&L ASAT Special, All the bite and twang you will ever need on the bridge pup and the neck pickup has a clean tone to die for, on a Alder body too. This guitar would be really smoking with a Hard ash, mahogany or walnut body. I have an American Deluxe 94 Black Tele with Stock Neck and Bridge pickups taken from an American Nashville B Bender Tele and I like its tone also, I also have a 54 Les Paul Custon re-issue with Single coils Bridge P-90 and Neck Alnico 5 which has a superb tone right straight from the dealer with no mods. Just too expensive to take out on gigs, strictly a home guitar.

I hate Humbucking pickups with a passion. Only Single Coils for me.[This message was edited by John Floyd on 15 July 2004 at 04:04 AM.]

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 7:27 pm**

"I hate Humbucking pickups with a passion. Only Single Coils for me." Me too!
Tom, there are just too many variables with guitars to make any sort of judgement without trying out pups in your guitar. I know, I must have a dozen different pups in my guitar parts closet. On my 86 MIJ Tele, Bardens sounded terrible. I have a very old Barden bridge pup that's been on every Tele that I've had. I was sure that they just weren't for me. Then I played a friend's Zion hollow Tele-style with 3 Barden's and had to have it! Traded my Albert Lee for it. Go figure. That MIJ Tele now has a Seymore Duncan Jerry Donahue bridge pup on it, and it sounds terrific. Loads of twang with no "icepick".
I put a Fralin Strat pup in the bridge of my ancient Strat. Hated it! Just put a set of Fralin's in a friend's Tele. Sounds awesome. So, excuse my long winded explanation, but,, ya just gotta try stuff and be patient. Other's opinions may steer you in the right direction, but until you have it in your guitar, there's just no telling how it will react. Just too many variables. Good luck,
JB

Posted: **14 Jul 2004 9:05 pm**

They don't no better then the Lawrence call Bill and he will fix you up just the way you want to be --1-877-647-2651 toll free

Posted: **15 Jul 2004 3:01 am**

Other's opinions may steer you in the right direction, but until you have it in your guitar, there's just no telling how it will react. Just too many variables.

No truer words were ever spoken, Different strokes for different folks applies here.

Much of it is in your right hand.

------------------
 The Southern Steel Guitar Convention at Saluda, SC Since 1987

For informstion on the Shriners Childrens Hospitals, go to:
http://www.shrinershq.org/hospitals/geninfo.html

Posted: **15 Jul 2004 3:21 am**

It is not possible to state that 1 PUP is better than another..it's not a good road to go down or to get on.

Do I think Lawrence PUPS are good..yes of course, but they are not one of the primary players in the Tele' swapping PUP game, and who can figure out why. It may be because many of the PUPS that are replaced look stock, they are identicle in look to the original PUPS. I know that I wouldn't put any PUP on my Tele's that changed the appearance.This seems to be common in the Tele' bangers circle of foolishness.

The tone that you wanna ' here..can you even make it happen with your right hand technique, can the amp you are using even reproduce it ?

I'm not a big fan of HB'ers on Tele's , but I would like to have 1 Tele' with a HB'er in the neck position so I can have the ability to play some FAT chords and phrases
during the Blue'zy tunes. And I don't have a Tele' like that so it is obvious that I need one !

A pefect example of a stock Tele' and a local SC player that rips and has tone to die for is Jerry Burns.

MIM guitar, stock bridge PUP, Stock Fender HB in the neck position..and those of us that know Jerry ..well..we know Jerry !

"So what do I have to do to get that same sound Jerry has ?"

and the answer is...

Practice

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 July 2004 at 04:23 AM.]

Posted: **15 Jul 2004 3:28 am**

Tony (big city boy)

Before you go off the deep end and go the humbucker route, Try out my P-Tele at Saluda Next month. might just change your mind.

Jerry also plays with bare fingers with no long nails either, Great Player. Gets an amazing tone.

John (from the country part of NC)

------------------
 The Southern Steel Guitar Convention at Saluda, SC Since 1987

For informstion on the Shriners Childrens Hospitals, go to:
http://www.shrinershq.org/hospitals/geninfo.html

[This message was edited by John Floyd on 15 July 2004 at 05:00 AM.]

Posted: **15 Jul 2004 4:53 am**

I have a Seymour Duncan Broadcaster in two guitars -- one is a Tele and the other is a single-pickup Esquire -- using Fender and non-Fender parts. I am a big fan of the early 50's Telecaster sound, and I'm very happy with the Broadcaster pickup. I also use 250K pots, no "extra" resistors, and compensated brass bridge saddles on a 3-saddle bridge, which are essential parts of the tone package, IMHO.

Posted: **15 Jul 2004 5:37 am**

John from the Country part of NC ?

I know about the P PUPS..I just wanna' HB on the low end Tele' tht I have ( #3) ..and yes I wanna' play your guitar, all of em', bring them all !

and I too ( like Jerry I suppose) play off my fingers with no picks.Have been for over 25 years..

is there another way to play a Tele' ?

My main squeeze TELE' is still my 1989/52RI
and I doubt that will ever change anytime soon..unless a non RI just happens to arrive at my doorstep some day..

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 15 July 2004 at 06:40 AM.]

Posted: **15 Jul 2004 7:08 am**

The Fender reissue pickups are okay, but my favorites are the Seymour Duncan Antiquity '54 and Broadcaster pickups. The only real difference between the two Antiquity pickups is that the '54 has staggered pole pieces. I've got the '54 in a B-bender Tele and the Broadcaster in vintage reissue and a Thinline.

Posted: **15 Jul 2004 9:35 am**

I have built about 40 teles and have tried a lot of picups they all vary, the best one I ever heard was off a tele squire.In general the best for a true tele sound is the alnico 2 S.D. picup or the one that came out with a couple of years ago the has ceramic mags on the bass srings and alnico Brent Mason is using it and a lot of other studio players, you owe it to yourself to try it

Posted: **16 Jul 2004 10:26 am**

Thanks to all for the great input.

Jeff, I think the newer Seymour Duncan to which you're referring with two different types of magnets might be what's called the "Five-Two." (?)

Posted: **16 Jul 2004 11:46 am**

I thought they were called studio pickups but I really havent kept up with it the last few years, Ive wanted to try it and will soon, Ive also heard the TV Jones pickup is unreal for the neck Jeff

Posted: **17 Jul 2004 6:06 pm**

Why not find a Tele you like and buy it (and ditch the one you have).

If you don't like the sound, why did you buy it? It seems like a lot of work, but that's commen when buying the cheap Tele's.

Posted: **19 Jul 2004 6:51 pm**

Paul -- I appreciate the suggestion but:

I don't really feel like traveling around extensively looking at guitars.

Even if I did have the time, I don't want to pay retail, and on top of that also pay 8.3% sales tax.

Furthermore, I like vintage size frets and I want the more modern fingerboard radius, and I want a maple fingerboard. That combination is available only on the Standard Tele, or on a $2500 custom shop model, or on a guitar I build myself (I don't want to build a guitar yet, because I don't have the time).

Besides, I have played several Tele's before and I've found that, although the overall sound texture (for lack of a better term) of an electric guitar is in fact effected by a variety of factors, as others have pointed out above, to my ear most of the sound texture is effected by the pickup.

Therefore, if I can find a guitar that I'm happy with in regard to the neck body, etc. etc., then I don't mind putting a pickup into the guitar if that will give me a sound that's close to what I'm after.

I have also found that, although MIM Tele's are not works of art they are generally of good quality, especially considering the current price of $349 if you buy one on-line, and which price includes shipping and no sales tax. They have the neck that I want, and they have alder bodies and generally acceptable hardware.

Finally, I kinda get a little kick out of doing a little customizing to a guitar, like changing the pickups, bridge, etc, etc, for a few bucks. I'd rather do that to a $349 guitar than to a $1500 American-made '52 reissue guitar which would be my only other option and it wouldn't even have all the features I wanted. Plus, I like having a brand new guitar, so buying a used guitar is generally not an option.

Good suggestion, though. For other people, it might be the way to go.

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 19 July 2004 at 08:00 PM.]

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