The Steel Guitar Forum

We are looking for a solution to recording audio at the upcoming show and our old cassette recorder isn't working well anymore. We are considering a MiniDisc recorder. There were some posts a couple of years ago that said they were great. Does anyone have recent experience with the models available today? We saw one at Walmart for $147. by Sony but I found out it does not have microphone inputs.

The low end Sony's do not have mike inputs.
You have to sepnd another $100 or so for the models that do.

I like mine. It's not a pro solution, due to it's built in compression, but way batter than a casette recorder.

MiniDisc is very good. It far outstrips cassette. True, it uses compression, but not all compression is created equal. MiniDisc uses ATRAC compression which has been revised and upgraded over the years (it's at least at version 4.5 now) and is startlingly good. Far better than the usual 128kbps bit rate MP3 compression many music files are recorded with, so don't let that fool you (MP3 can sound pretty good, too, if you set the recording bit rate high; people don't uauslly do that because it makes for bigger files).

More on MiniDisc at http://www.minidisc.org/index.html

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<font size=-1>Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?</font>

We record all our rehearsals and performance on MiniDisc recorders. I have had one for a couple of years and I love it!
The web site Minidisco has a good selection and is very helpful.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Any particular brands to steer clear of? Most folks seem to like Sony.

One word of warning about Sony Mini Disc machines. I have one, and I like it, but one disappointment was learning that you cannot dump a home-made sound file onto your computer in quick time. It has to be done in real time - a bit of a hassle.
Nonetheless, for the minimal expense and ease of operation, they're a great tool.
-John
p.s. Another thing, if you buy one, do NOT buy the stereo mic which has no cord (just the input jack on the side of the mic). The sound quality isn't great, and it picks up the noise of the machine because it's attached right to the side of it. Go for the sony ECM -MS907, which has a few feet of cable and great stereo seperation. -J

For the hot tips on MD recoding live, I'd contact Brad Sarno (he is on this forum).
He has been making some great live recodings on MD using a nice stereo mic.

I use a Sony MD (MZ-R70) that has an option to turn off the dreaded "Automatic Record Volume" setting, and set it to "Manual Record Volume" (which means if it's messed up, it's your fault!).
I use a Sony Mic (Sony ECM-MS907 Digital Stereo Microphone).
This setup makes a pretty good recording.
I have a 20' extension cable from Radio Shack that I use sometimes, too (I've used 2 to get about 43').
Sometimes I just put the unit and mic on the sound board table, but I like to be able to pause between songs because this unit only records 74 min (now they record double/triple that).

David Wrights CD was recorded from the soundboard to minidisk, and it sounds really great!

Soundboard to MD might be what'll work best for your band, but for general rehearsal/gig recording where you are mainly interested in reviewing the tape for steel parts (I often place the mic in a "Steel Intensive" location), the mic works fine.
FWIW, There are a bunch on Ebay.

Moved to 'Electronics" section.

I like the Minidisk recorders made by Sharp. I think they had the patent on the design, but I'm not sure. The Sony's are idiotproof. They default to a mode with auto-record levels. You can scroll thru menu's to turn it off. If you aren't technical and just want an easy recording, the Sony is the way to go. Personally, I hate when recorders have auto record levels because it's like a slow compressor and it removes the dynamics from the performance. The soft passages get brought up the the same level as the loud ones. I prefer to use the Sharp and set the levels manually.

I must admit to being an audio snob since I deal with high end pro and audiophile gear every day. I was slow to come around to Minidisk but as someone else mentioned before, the modern compression schemes have made the Minidisk format sound pretty darn good. Even though it uses only 1/5th the data of CD quality audio (5:1 data compression), the sound is arguably "good enough". It's a bit grainy compared to true CD quality and the response doesnt extend as high, but it's good enough for most live gig (and bootleg) situations. It's hands down the most convenient way to record also, and the disks are CHEAP.

If the purpose is for pro quality recording to be released on CD, I'd strongly recommend stepping up the fidelity to a CD recorder, a DAT recorder, a computer with a good audio interface, or an Ampex ATR tape machine at 30 ips (ha!).



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Brad Sarno
Blue Jade Audio Mastering
St. Louis

Brad, could you give a couple of examples of a good audio interface for computers (PC)

Brad,

Any recommendations on particular models/features to look for or stay away from? (Re: minidisk recorders)<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Chris Bauer on 28 June 2003 at 01:24 PM.]</p></FONT>

I've had my Sony MZ-N1 for about a year and I'm very happy with it.


I also have the Sony ECM-Z590 mike.

I use them for live recording, like I used to use a casette recorder.

I've never owned another MiniDisk recorder so I can only speak for this one.

I believe this model is being replaced by a newer one. Just be sure you get one with a mike input.

Many MDs are only intended to be players.

I have had good results recording our live shows using the Archos Jukebox MP3 recorder. www.archos.com

This little machine is a portable USB hard drive that acts as an MP3 player/recorder. I run directly out of the board into it. It records to MP3 format and when you're finished you just drag the MP3 file onto your PC and can burn it to a CD

The ability to move a recording from the portable machine to PC is what's missing with the minidisc machines.

I have some samples at www.homecookinbluegrass.com/live.htm

The quality of these samples was reduced to facilitate streaming at 56K

Brad S., use an Ampex ATR tape machine at 30 ips? Been there, done that! Most clients went at 15 ips to save on tape costs. (We're talkin' recording studio open reel 1/4 or 1/2" 2-track mixdown machines. Great stuff for analog work.)

The ATR102: http://www.atrservice.com/atr/gifs/backrecord4.gif

Back to MiniDisc, I almost bought a Sony home deck/portable player combo, but didn't want to go the extra step of buying an in-dash player for my car.

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<font size=-1>Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?</font>

I've got a pair of the Sharp MD-MT15 portable minidisk recorders. Very simple controls, manual record level only, sounds pretty good. This model is a couple of years old now and I'm not up on what Sharp is doing lately. Again, I really dislike the fact that all the Sony's default to auto-record level and you have to scroll thru a menu to make it a manual control. But most people I know prefer the auto level because it's takes less work. Just hit record and go. The sound of the newer Sony models that I've heard is really quite good.

Recording interfaces:

There are tons out there. I've been real impressed with the little ones by M-Audio and Emagic. M-audio has the "Audiophile USB" which is cheap and cool. They're coming out with the Firewire 410 which offers a few channels of I/O. Emagic has the EMI 2/6, another USB connected interface. Very stable and good sounding. Right around $225 street price. If you're serious about pro quality the industry flagship is the Mobile I/O by Metric Halo. It's a full multichannel I/O box connected to computer by firewire. It has 8 mic preamps on the input, total software control, converters that compete with Apogee and the like, and it's the size of a laptop computer. But it's in the $1400 range. MOTU makes the 2408 mk3 interface. This is also a multichannel interface that will do just about anything with all the options. These are under a grand and are as reliable and user friendly as it gets. MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) is a great company. Then there's Digidesign (Pro Tools people) M-Box which is pretty cool but keeps you stuck using Pro Tools only (I believe).

So if you just want stereo in and out at pretty good quality there's:

M-Audio Audiophile USB or
Emagic EMI 2/6 or
Digidesign M-Box

For multichannel:
MOTU 2408 mk3
Metric Halo Mobile I/O
Digidesign 001
M-Audio Firewire 410


There are others out there but I'm pretty familiar with these boxes and they all seem to perform real well. The MOTU 2408 mk3 and the Metric Halo Mobile I/O are the most flexible and friendly and universally acceptable with many types of software.




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Brad Sarno
Blue Jade Audio Mastering
St. Louis

Thanks for the great info, folks. I took a look at the Jukebox MP3 recorder and it looks pretty neat except in the specs it sounded like it had a built-in mic but not an external mic input. Is that correct? You'd have to have an external mic preamp, if so. Looks as though we will go with a Sony or Sharp mini-disc. Still looking at specs and comparing battery options. One of the toughest things is choosing one that my clumsy fingers can deal with. Those buttons are small!

I'll echo Brad's thoughts on the Sharp MD recorders, I have the MD-SR70, and being able to manually adjust the record level has been a big benefit. Also, this model has a Mic sensitivity as well, a low setting for really loud signals, etc. I use mine to record acoustic guitar at home, with a little stereo mic to record concerts in clubs, whatever. You can also record in mono and double the capacity of the minidiscs as well...

Carter

I did a search on Sharp's website and could not find the MD-SR70. So I am assuming that they aren't making them any more.

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