Which Bar For Hawaiian Style?

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Hi Gang

Decided to work with my old 6 string Magnatone, and order some instructional material. I've played pedal for 25 years plus and wondered if I should stick to my beloved BJS bar or get something smaller and more appropriate for learning slants? (Man, those slants are tricky

thx

bob

[This message was edited by Bob Snelgrove on 23 October 2001 at 04:35 PM.]

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

How big is the BJs bar? I've found that the Broz-O-Phonic bar by Latch Lake is the perfect size for six string lap steel (for my hand).
I do have a couple of pedal steel bars, but I find them too unwieldy on lap steel.

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Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Brad

It's a 7/8 in, 12 string, I think.

What about the Red Raja bars?

thx

Bob

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Brad

What is the size/shape of the Brozman bar?

thx

Bob

Fred Layman · From: Springfield, Missouri USA

I prefer a Shubb SP-1 bar for non pedal playing. It is shaped like a Stevens dobro bar in the hand grip, but has a rounded nose for bar tip playing. The hand grip gives good control for slant bar playing. I bought it from Herby Wallace

[This message was edited by Fred Layman on 23 October 2001 at 08:54 PM.]

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

Personally, I prefer the Red Rajah...smooth, quiet on the strings and has a great sustain.

mikey · From: New Jersey

Whichever bar YOU like is the right one!!!
I ONLY used the Red Rajah bar for Acoustic...and not even that much any more...personally I can only use comfortably a dunlop 920 size...works on slants a Broz-o-phonic CAN'T....and my hands aren't that big...so I use it for everything from Dobro to Pedal Steel...(it's a 7/8"x 3 1/4")So...if it works for you, keep using the BJS and remember..the spacing is usually WIDER on a 6 string so a fatter bar comes in handy you don't have to"fudge" your slants like you would with a slimmer bar...
Mike

Tim Rowley · From: Pinconning, MI, USA

I have accumulated a number of bars down through the past several years, including a couple old Black Rajahs from the 1950's. Really I like the Broz-O-Phonic best for lap steel AND dobro. It's about 5/8" or 11/16" diameter by 2 7/8" I think, I never measured it. Works good for me though, handier than the larger pedal steel bar on a 6-string tuning and easier for me to hold on to than the Stevens, Shubb, or other grooved bars. The Broz-O-Phonic has a cupped indentation in the butt end which is helpful for slanting.

Tim R.

Frank · Posted 23 Oct 2001 11:59 pm

Hi Gang, I have to ask this question and I hope I don`t show my Ignorance.
I use a small Stevens, thats about 3 7/8 X 5/8 On the dobro and the 6 string lap steels
But a guy I met some years ago used a solid round bullet shaped bar,you couldn`t lift it, as It had no groves. when asked why it didn`t squall when slide up and down the neck
he replied "technique"
This person did play a (make that have) a pedal Sho-Bud, and I thought that maybe that type bar was what was used on PSG`S,I didn`t push It, the attitude was evident.
Can anyone enlighten me please.....?
Thanks.....Frank

Chris Walke · From: St Charles, IL

I'll second that SP-1. I use that for my 8-string and an SP-2 for my dobro and 6-string lap steel. Nice shape, easy to lift, and bullet nose...both models.

Frank, the guy you met was just using a bullet-nosed bar, which can be used for both pedal and nonpedal steel. It's all just a matter of preference, really. Your stevens steel is fine, if that is what you are comfortable with.

The technique he was referring to is called blocking, and we all struggle to perfect that part of playing. Well, I struggle, anyway. There should be no problem lifting the bullet-nose steel. You have to pull up the tail end of it to get the single note runs anyway. It's just a matter of getting used to holding a bar with no grooves.

I always get irritated when musician's are short with people. They are doing something that attracts interest and attention. We should all be friendly to people who ask us about the instruments we play, and especially helpful to musicians trying to learn about technique.

Bill Leff · From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA

Frank,

The bullet nose bar is held in the palm and in between the fingers in such a way that it is possible to lift it. It takes awhile to learn how to do it, and if you're experience is anything like mine, you'll be squirting the bar off the front side of the steel every now and again for awhile. But once you get the hang of it, it becomes second nature.

-Bill

Robert · From: Chicago

Frank:
Maybe the musician you refer to was just trying to put you down - I wasn't there, so I'll take your word for it. But "technique" was the right answer, anyway. I use a 3 1/4"
x 7/8" bullet nose bar on eight-string necks. It's sort of a heavy bar, and of course, has "nothing to hold onto" for lifting. When I first started trying single-note playing, I would lift the back of the bar off of the strings and the nose would plummet into ( or right through!) the strings. I couldn't see how the bar was being kept in a players hand, let alone how so much finesse was being applied to it's use. Well, two years later, I don't have that trouble - and while I'm certainly no Jerry Byrd (and will never be) - I am capable of controlling a bullet-nose bar. It was practice - and making mistakes - and not trying 20 different bars that made the difference for me, anyway. BTW - it's a Dunlop stainless steel bar that I bought from Bobbe Seymour. I'm thinking of switching to a chrome-plated bar. I use a little 3-in-1 oil and 0000 steel wool on this stainless bar to help keep it smooth, but the plate would probably make that a thing of the past. Just keep pluggin' away.

Rob Yale

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Almost every steel guitar technique, with the exception of very fast hammer & pull off lines, is easier with a bullet bar. Personally, I'm not quite as enamored of the Red Rajah as a lot of folks seem to be. My favorite bars in order of preference are ...
1) John Pierce Thermo-Cryonic
2) Dunlop Jerry Byrd
3) Red Rajah (for electric)
4) Dunlop pedal steel bar if I need to get
a four note slant bar major 7th chord in
C6th

I don't like the Borzo-phonic. It seems too long for slant bar playing.

Todd Weger · From: Safety Harbor, FLAUSA

Well, I currently use either a Dunlop 902 (3/4" x 3 1/4" 5.5oz), or a Dunlop Jerry Byrd. I usually use the longer 902 for 8 string playing, and the JB for 6 string lap.

That said though, I'm REALLY curious about the new Red Rajah "tapered" bar. The man I played with this past weekend uses a thick-walled hollow steel bar that's about 3" long, and goes from about a 3/4" to 5/8" taper. I picked it up to try it out, and I was really impressed with how much easier it was to control, both for single note work, and for vibrato. I would have to think that the Red Rajah would be even better, from the reports of people who use them.

Can anyone else recommend this bar?

TJW

Fernando Fernandez · From: Cadiz,Spain

Personally since I strated to use the Dunlop Jerry Byrd model I don't feel confortable with any other bar.It's my favourite bar.

I have other bars among them a BJ's , I have to say BJ's have a great quality but mine is a 10-strings model and only works for pedal steel. Others bar I have are too long and it's very dificult do a slant bar correctly.
well, all the bars you have said are good..I think that it's a personal preference but I think really a short size helps with the slant bar stuff.

Robert · From: Chicago

There's a thread with a link to another thread about bars over on "Steel Players" - although it's primarily about the material/finish of bars, it probably includes other useful info, as well.

Rob Yale

Frank · Posted 24 Oct 2001 11:57 am

Ok,Thanks to all you guys , you`ve answerd my question and at the same time pointed out a fault I`m having on single note runs using the square nose Stevens.
I`ve compiled a list using Andy`s list and
model no.#`s taken from the text, so now It`s off to the local music store to see what I can try out.
In the event I can`t find a suitable bar locally,Is there a source on line that I could use?

Thanks again for the help ....... Frank.

Ian McLatchie · From: Sechelt, British Columbia

Bob: If you're used to the BJS and like it, why not just go to a smaller version of the same? I've used a 3/4" BJS for about five years and am completely happy with it. As people have said, the dimensions, etc. are purely a matter of taste, but in terms of plating quality you'll never find a better bar than the BJS. My present one I've had I think for almost four years, and it has virtually no sign of wear.

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Thanks, All

I do love my BJS, but I'm having a heck of a time learning slant techniques. I thought maybe other types of bars would be more suited to a 6 string and "slanting".

Thx

Bob

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

My suggestion, Bob, would be to get a Dunlop Jerry Byrd bar and a copy of JB's video. You don't necessarily have to stay with the Dunlop bar but it's an optimal size for learning slants. then it's just a matter of time and practice. Slant bar technique comes naturally to few people but it usually comes eventually. Hang in there!

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Back in the 30's and 40's when we used to play lap steel before pedals. Most of us used a bullet nosed bar but very skinny, easy to pick up and down and ,also handle for those important slants. I think it was "no name" bar.....al

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I've seen guys play just fine with just about any bar ever made - but for me,the bigger diameter bars are easier to get hold of and manipulate.And they're definately easier and smoother to do rolling vibrato as opposed to the noiser,scrapey, sliding vibrato.And to me,the plastic bars,dobro bars,flat bars,so-called sacred bars,or other gimmick bars besides being hard to handle,have about as much tone as a cork - but that's just me. I don't play a six string lap,but I do own a few eight stringers and I just use my big 1" 12 string bar cause I'm used to it. Plus,I can do some long slants with that thing - and high angle slants seem to ring better with less sitar effect using a heavier bar. -MJ-

Sage · From: Boulder, Colorado

I'm glad I'm not the only one out there playing lap steel with a 1" 12 string bar. I like it for many of the same reasons listed above, and I have kind of big hands so it works. I do get a lot of "my, what a big bar you have" comments from other players. Unfortunately, my BJS hasn't helped me get any dates with the ladies by itself. It would probably help if I could play better.

Sage Harmos

[This message was edited by Sage on 25 October 2001 at 02:42 PM.]

Rick Aiello · From: Berryville, VA USA

Bob, in my opinion:

If you are goin' to learn and play JB's arrangements - particularly C6/A7 you will be doing ALOT of reverse slants on strings 1+2 and 1+4. Only 1 fret but frequent and fast. It's best to go with 2 3/4". Diameter ain't as important- I have had 1" and 7/8" custom jobs all 2 3/4". I've got the Pearse and BJS bars but that 2 7/8" is just too long (and I have big hands).

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

Could someone measure and post the actual dimensions of the Broz-o-Phonic? Dunlop, Red Rajah etc. put their dimensions on their websites so you know what you're getting. I am looking for the longest 3/4" bar I can get.

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