Who uses Matchbox type devices?

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 18 Jan 2000 3:29 pm

I've never used one, but am considering buying a Matchbox or SuperSustain gizmo/thingamajig. Why or why not?

Buck Grantham · Post by **Buck Grantham** » 18 Jan 2000 3:51 pm

Some guitars sound better without those. I have a regular matchbox and a super sustain matchbox, have used them both but discovered yhat my guitar sounds better without them. They are supposed to be an empedence matcher between the guitar & Amp And supposed to keep the pick up from loading up and the sound getting muddy. Iuse a Hilton pedal so i don't have to use those any more.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Jan 2000 4:16 pm

Most amplifiers have a relatively high input impedance. Unless the amp input is "loading down" the pickup (and I think this is very rare), you really shouldn't need one. A lot of people say it helps the tone, but I just use the tone controls on the amp for this. The more devices you have between the amp and the guitar, the more noise and problems you are likely to run into. I like to keep it simple and clean.

Oh, and by the way. If you have a problem with "sustain", fix it by "changing something", not by "adding something".

Ricky Littleton · Post by **Ricky Littleton** » 18 Jan 2000 7:49 pm

I used a regular Match Box for a while, but honestly, could not really tell a difference in the tone.

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Emmons LeGrande - 8x4

Bill Findlay · Post by **Bill Findlay** » 18 Jan 2000 10:14 pm

I used the Matchbox and matchbox super sustain for awhile and I could not tell it did much, if any good. I don't believe you need them to obtain a good steel sound. I now go from the PSG to the Pedal to a Pedal Analog Delay to the Amp. And I am well satisfied with the tone I get.

Kevin Walker · Post by **Kevin Walker** » 18 Jan 2000 10:21 pm

I had a Matchbox years ago, bought it new, used it about two times, and tossed it on the shelf. The only things that I could hear it accomplish were over-driving my pre-amp, and creating a thin, high-end sound.

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 18 Jan 2000 11:20 pm

I had one built into my guitar years ago and love it- the tone control is able to be accomplished right on the "dashboard" (as Ed Packard so eloquently described it) of my guitar without having to reach to the amp~, and, in my case, it definitely added a crispness to my sound that I was lacking~~

RickRichtmyer · Post by **RickRichtmyer** » 19 Jan 2000 3:46 am

I have a Goodrich Steel Driver II. I haven't found that it makes a significant difference when I'm playing through an amp, but when I record, I go through a direct box and it makes a real difference to have it in the chain then.

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Rick Richtmyer
users.erols.com/rickrichtmyer

Jon Smorada · Post by **Jon Smorada** » 19 Jan 2000 5:48 am

I use a MatchBro only because some of the material I play has a Dobro in it and I can't afford a real one. I go direct from the Guitar -> MatchBro -> Volume Pedal -> Amp. I put my tuner and Korg A3 through the effects loop in the amp. It seems to keep the signal cleaner.

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Jon
'66 Emmons P/P D-10 4x8
rebelspirit.net/rebel
rebelspirit.net/showdown

[This message was edited by Jon Smorada on 19 January 2000 at 05:49 AM.]

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 19 Jan 2000 9:27 am

I have a basic matchbox, and I like it a lot. I think it helps the sound of my MSA anyway. And Rick's right, it definitely helps for recording. But I can hear a difference thru the amp too. But then, I like a real overdriven sound. I use it on everything.

John

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Better Late than Never!
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel

Jerry Wright · Post by **Jerry Wright** » 19 Jan 2000 4:56 pm

I use a Super Sustain Matchbox and I can't tell a big difference coming out of the amp,but however,coming out of my pedal I feed into my Tubefex the out of my Tubefex left Mono to line input to amp.where the big difference comes in for me is coming out of the Tubefex left & right line outs to the main board for mixing. Stereo**

R Robichaud · Post by **R Robichaud** » 19 Jan 2000 6:09 pm

Hi Joe, I have a match box that I bought years ago, and I still use it today. I am defenitely not an expert on toys, but if I recall, I read somewhere that you maintain tone on the second octave (above the 12th fret). I do not notice much difference at home playing with it off or on. However since I use it all the time, It doesn't matter where I play or under any condition my steel seems to sound the same. So I like it for that reason. Perhaps some of our professionals could also comment on their experiences with this.

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 20 Jan 2000 7:04 am

I have an older model Super Sustain Match box that I have had for quite some time, I have always like it, especially with a steel that has single coil pickups - I just cannot get the tone that I like without it. thats probably the problem 'tone' it is different for each player. I also like having the tone control close at hand and that is right there on the unit. A few months ago I tried it on a friends steel guitar that had a humbucking pickup on it, (E-66) there was an incredible improvement, of course he bought one from me on the spot! I can't say enough good things about Goodrich products.

Ernie

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Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 20 Jan 2000 7:52 am

The voltage and current produced by a magnetic pickup is very, very weak. A weak signal is easier degraded than a strong signal. You don't have to know anything about electronics to understand this. The first thing this weak signal must push through on it's way to the amplifier is a 500-thousand OHM potentiometer in your pedal.If I were not making my own device, I would certainly use either the Goodrich unit, or the Peavey 3-cord hookup to their pre-amp. It sometimes is not possible to hear the differency in frequency where you are close to your amps. The only good way to hear the difference is have someone else play your guitar. Have them play the exact same passage. Get out front and listen. Hearing is like eye sight. Some people have better and others have worse hearing than the norm. The actual true test of signal and frequency is not individual opinion, but the oscilloscope with a dual trace picture screen. Hook up the signal with a pre-amp, and the signal without a pre-amp. You will see a great difference in frequency.

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Bill cole · Post by **Bill cole** » 20 Jan 2000 9:01 am

Hey Keith would I be able to watch my self playing on that there scope and when I get tired of me I could change over and watch a movie man I will be the coolsert rteel player around these here parts maybe it would help me play better too and god knows I can use all the help I can get

Joe Savage · Post by **Joe Savage** » 20 Jan 2000 3:10 pm

Hey Bill, you are already the "coolsert rteel" player in my book. To all you guys, thanks for the responses. It seems
like a 50/50 vote on the devices. Here's my deal, aside from the tone problems associated with a Nashville 400, my stuff muddies up as the volume pedal is increased. Now, is that what these unit are meant to compensate for? Also, because I can't afford an Evans or a Webb, will one of these units help to sweeten up the highs on my rig, or should I be thinking something else. It's that brittle thing from the Peavey I can't stand anymore. Maybe this belongs on the Technical Problems page. Keith, Ernie Renn emailed about your gizmos. Feel free to do the same and give me some more details. Thanks again. Joe[This message was edited by Joe Savage on 20 January 2000 at 03:15 PM.]

Steve Byam · Post by **Steve Byam** » 20 Jan 2000 4:33 pm

Hey Joe,
Don`t spend your money on gear, take Jennie out to dinner.When you come to town, you can use one I have here at the house.
Steve

Steve Byam · Post by **Steve Byam** » 20 Jan 2000 4:33 pm

Hey Joe,
Don`t spend your money on gear, take Jennie out to dinner.When you come to town, you can use one I have here at the house.
Steve

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Jan 2000 7:55 pm

Keith,

Do you have your "terms" right? If an o-scope showed a difference in frequency, wouldn't you be playing a different note? Doesn't frequency = note pitch?

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 20 Jan 2000 8:48 pm

Donny, the pitch of a particular guitar note on a oscilloscope appears different from a guitar note of a different pitch. Two years ago I did a study on the shape of notes coming from a Dobro. I had the Dobro miked ,and run to a pre-amp, then to my oscilloscope. I wanted to see what made the sound different than steel guitar. The actual shape of Dobro notes on the screen of the oscilloscope were much different than steel. This is one of the ways they are able to recreate lots of different sounds of musical instruments. You could take a steel guitar note, and try to make it look like a Dobro note. This is done by altering the steel guitar signal electronically, usually with filters of different orders. Playing with a wooden bar will alter the signal of a steel guitar. On a oscilloscope a wooden bar creates a totally different signal trace than does a metal bar. You know if it wasn't for Thomas Edison, we would all be watching T.V. in the dark!

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Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 20 Jan 2000 11:17 pm

Nowadays we can make WAV files and view them on the computer. Heck of a lot easier (and more stable) than an oscilloscope!

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 20 Jan 2000 11:56 pm

When I need a dobro-sound on stage I hook on the Matchbro. In all other cases I leave in unplugged, because in my setup it kills my sustain.
In my setup I only use one-foot cables.
from steel into the korg 19" tuner, from there into the GP 100 in the loop of the GP is my Boogie studio pre-amp and in the loop of the Boogie my volumepedal (they need 2 feet cable) I use the Matchbro between the axe and the tuner. Dobro sound with a nice setting on the GP very realistic,but used on the guitarswitch, very poor.
I'm wondering if I can build it in my rack and get a bypass on it.
Johan

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<A HREF="http://come.to/steeldays" TARGET=_blank>
http://come.to/steeldays</A>
The European STEELDAYS 2000!
http://listen.to/johanjansen

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 21 Jan 2000 6:45 am

Johan, building a bypass switch is not as simple as it seems. A frequent cause of problems is extra capacitance from extra wire and the switch. Use short shelded wire.
Bobby Lee, I'm about 3 years behind on my computer skills. Sorry for being so stupid concerning the computer, I am eager to learn. I am aware that most of my test gear can be hooked up to my computer. Could you tell me a little more about your WAV hookup? Sounds exciting. Keith Hilton

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Bill cole · Post by **Bill cole** » 21 Jan 2000 7:12 am

Folks now you know the truth all you that spent all that money for all these attachments to sound like a dobro all you had to do is do like I did 35 years ago CUT OFF THE WIFES BROOM HANDLE but ya better do it while she aint lookin and if she catches you just tell her that Keith Hilton told you to

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 21 Jan 2000 8:07 am

Things like that have happened around my house before Bill. Sometimes my wife is not amused by my experiments. I can't wait until Bobby Lee comes back and gets into detail on how to hook up the WAV he talked about.

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[This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 21 January 2000 at 08:08 AM.]