The Steel Guitar Forum

Hey everybody -- lately, I've been trying to improve my left hand vibrato for Hawaiian playing. After years of playing guitar, my right hand wrist movement is loose, and very controlled. My left hand, by contrast, is a frustrating, clenched-up nervous sounding mess!

Well, as an experiment, I put the bar in my right hand, and plucked a few strings (unplugged), and found that I can get any and all speeds and depth of an almost vocal-like and "singing" vibrato -- EXACTLY what I want the other hand to sound like! For some reason though, it just doesn't want to respond the same way, and I'm becoming quite frustrated. A guitar playing buddy told me that it's just a matter of developing the right muscle groups, as my right hand has done over years of playing funk rhythm guitar.

I DO agree with that, but what I'm wondering is, has anyone else ever had this problem, and what types of excersises did you do to get that natural "singing" Hawaiian vibrato? Arrrrrrggggghhhh!!

Thanks in advance for your help. Oh, and please... don't tell me to restring, and learn to play left handed, with the bar in my right hand. Believe me -- for awhile there, I considered that! But, the reality is, that's not going to happen. It was hard enough to learn to make my fingers work the string with the right hand!

Thank you!

TJW

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Todd James Weger/RD/RTD
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (Amaj9, C6, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6) through an old Super Reverb or Deluxe; Melobar SLS lapsteel (open G); Chandler RH-4 Koa semi-hollow lapsteel (A6)

Todd:
Isolate your movement to your wrist, hand, and fingers. Relax your arm and keep your shoulder and torso out of your vibrato. Don't press on the strings any harder than you need to. If you're going for a quick vibrato, try not to equate speed with emotional intensity - try to play it fast and stay cool. This will help you not to tense up. Try different vibrato speeds from slow to fast and find a spot that sounds good and is comfortable to play - that will be the one you use most. I don't play a very "wide" vibrato, but if it's Hawaiian you're after, you can exaggerate that motion a bit and still sound good. A lot of players are going to want to offer advice on your thread - e.g., Ricky Davis, who has some good advice on vibrato intonation below.

Rob<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Robert on 28 August 2001 at 11:01 AM.]</p></FONT>

Here is a answer I had for vibrato on the "Ricky's Pro Talk" section of the Mightyfinemusic.com website.
Click here for an Answer!!


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Ricky Davis


<small>My Homepage
Rebel™ and Ricky's Audio Clips
www.mightyfinemusic.com
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@aol.com

Todd,

I went through this same problem. The way that I cured myself was; start with playing with NO vibrato at all. Than start to ease it in, slowly!

Remember...Vibrato can be very unpleasant if used too quickly. Just like a vocalist, a good one can hit the note and then use his/her vibrato to add an effect. A bad singer with have fast and out of control vibrato throughout the song. You want the guitar to sing...hit the note, and then start the vibrato.

Hope this helps.
Mark

Against my better judgement here goes:

I'm on the opposite side of the fretboard than most on this topic. I strive for a vibrato whose rate is about 6 Hz and whose extent is from 30 to 70 cents. That is FAST and WIDE. I have done alot of research (using a spectrum analysis plug-in to Sound Forge) and this is the most common vibrato used by singers like Sarah Vaughn, Ella Fitzgerald, Judy Garland and steel players like Dick McIntire and Sol Hoopii.

The extent varies with the length of time that the note is being held. It "builds" from small to large. This means the velocity of the bar must increase as the distance traveled by the bar increases to keep the RATE CONSTANT (like a point on the outer edge of an LP has a greater velocity than a point on the inner section when the record spins at 33 1/3 rpm.)

The onset of the vibrato is a matter of taste. I like to start as soon as the string "recovers" from the attack to take advantage of that energy.

I realize that this is not the most popular view. I have recently disappointed my long time instructor with my "psychotic" vibrato but it's the way I hear in in my head - I quess that makes me ......

That idea of trying to phrase and use vibrato like a jazz vocalist is a good one. Another idea is to listen to horns - I'm thinking of Clifford Brown on a ballad - now that's smooth, beautiful, and very vocal playing. I suspect that you are going to succeed at taming that shrew of a hand - it's probably as much in the head as in the hand. BTW - are you right- or left-handed?

Vibrato is a tricky business and probably THE most personal of all non-pedal techniques. I struggled with vibrato for a long, long time when I started out on steel. As a listener, in general, I prefer very minimal vibrato. I love Paul Desmond & Stan Getz's sax playing and they used very little vibrato except on the end of phrases, as Mark mentioned above. Singers do tend to turn it on to varrying degrees. It's such a personal issue. Joan Baez & Buffy St. Marie used to affect me like chalk on a blackboard. Ella's vibrato always strikes me as near perfect; very natural, while Sarah Vaughn's vibrato always seems kind of calculated and overdone - like putting more spin on the ball than needed.

As for steelers, I love Dick Mcintire and Barney Issacs vibrato and Jerry Byrd's vibrato is sublime of course but even the M-of-T-&-T can occasionally get my teeth chattering if he plays high up the neck with a constant, fast vibrato.

For my own playing, after worrying about it for a while I just decided to ignore the issue. Slowly, unconsciously, a natural, personal vibrato has crept into my playing and it's faster and wider than my self-professed taste would indicate but it seems to be innate. But sometimes, in an uptempo blues tune I sometimes find myself playing what Jerry calls the "nanny goat" vibrato if I'm not careful. This is an interesting topic and I don't remember it being discussed much for some reason.

What Andy said above. Ignoring it and letting it develop as a 'heard' experience
let's it come from the artistic/musical/creative part of us and not the studied/rational part. Both valuable, necessary, as with most things, but this is what's worked well for me. playing lap steel, resophonic, horn, and B-3 (on keyboard)it's flowed best as it arises.
Between Miles and Satchmo.
David Stehman

Hey TJ,
Haven't heard from you in awhile. Hope all is well.

What kind of bar are you using these days? If you remember, I have the Shubb-Pearce SP-1. Kind of a combination of a stevens steel and a bullet-nosed bar, long enough for 8-10 strings. Not your typical bar for lap steel, but I've found that it's easier to control a subtle "rocking" vibrato with that kind, at least on chord work.

I need a ton of practice on my vibrato too, so I just play along with slow tunes and just hold the chords and listen to what comes out of the amp. When I hear something I like, I just try to make note of what I'm doing, what my hand/wrist/arm feel like. Sometimes it's hard to hold onto that feeling, but I think that's the start of learning how to develop that kind of muscle memory.

I've found that using an effective vibrato is most difficult on single string work. Sometimes I want to scream when I hear how I'm approaching a single string line. Sounds like I've had way too much java.

I've been working most on trying to do what the others have mentioned already--start the note, then add vibrato as the note rings. It's requires lots of patience and self control. Maybe part of it is really getting yourself to really feel the note and add the vibrato because it feels like it should be there...not because you "think" it's supposed to be there.

Someday we'll figure it out.

Hey -- great comments, all. Thank you!

First, I'm right handed, so I play the usual way with bar in left hand, picks in right. I think I may not have been clear in my initial post. I already know what type/amount/speed of vibrato I'm looking to have. As trained vocalist with a degree in voice, I understand what people are saying about the difference between a singing, "sweet" vibrato versus the "nanny goat" thing. That's singing quality definitely what I'm trying to get with my left hand motion.

As I mentioned, if I put the bar in my right hand, I have complete and total control over all "parameters" of the vibrato: speed, depth, width, timing -- everything! If I could "cut 'n paste" my right arm onto my left, I'd be all set with the perfect vibrato and all manner of bar control. But, of course....

I think someone pegged the real problem, though, and that it's probably 75% in my head, 25% untrained muscles in that arm/wrist/hand. I've been playing guitar 25+ years, and played lots of funk rhythms. My right hand wrist has that perfect "controlled looseness." That's what I now want to somehow achieve in my left hand.

So, I know what I want. I guess the main thrust of my question is, how to get there? I will continue to do the slow, easy thing, and try to just let things develop naturally. I know it will come, eventually!

Thanks again for all your great suggestions and comments.

TJW

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Todd James Weger/RD/RTD
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (Amaj9, C6, A6); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6) through an old Super Reverb or Deluxe; Melobar SLS lapsteel (open G); Chandler RH-4 Koa semi-hollow lapsteel (A6)

The way I see it, the right hemisphere of the brain(artistic/musical/creative part)is where the sound you hear in your mind originates from. The left hemisphere (studied/rational/logical part) along with the cerebellum (coordination) is used to get this sound to your left hand.

Rick - Think that's the right track. My day job as psychotherapist involves heling clients use their brains in different ways to get out of ruts and do things differently.
Try exercises in 'Drawing on the right side of the Brain." book. Try doing things with your left hand you usualy do with the right, just let it happen without thinking about it. Try drawing/writing with your left hand to send it some new signals.
Dave

Re David:..............My day job as psychotherapist involves heling clients use their brains in different ways to get out of ruts and do things differently" ...........

David you have it nailed. I've always wondered what the perfect mating of occupation/avocation would be and you have it: "physchotherapist/steel guitarist"

It's coming along! My biggest hurdle was in getting from the slide into the note, and then adding the vibrato. I did some very, very slow movements, and gradually have built the speed, and it's WORKING! The new nerve connections are becoming stronger, and the signals are MUCH improved!

<SMALL>Try doing things with your left hand you usualy do with the right, just let it happen without thinking about it. Try drawing/writing with your left hand to send it some new signals.</SMALL>

Thank you! That's what I've been looking for, and actually what I started doing yesterday. Brushing my teeth, opening the cereal box, getting a CD out of the case, etc.. I've been using my left hand instead of my right. I think IS helping, and this type of thing is what I was looking for.

Anyway, thank you all for the help. It's finally getting to where I wanted, and is WAAAAY more musical now. YEAH!

TJW

Sorry I didn't answer your original question, I just got excited about the topic.

Here is a tip that helps me when I'm stiff - Once I get into position and have picked the note I SHUT my eyes and vibrato. For some reason not looking at the bar really frees up its movements. I quess I can't do two things at once!!