Tube Amp Demands

Larry R · From: Navasota, Tx.

Perhaps someone dealing with Marketing could answer this question. It appears that there is a demand for tube amps. Why hasn't Fender Corp. introduced a high output (say 130 watt) tube amplifier (for guitar or steel)? Is the cost prohibitive or is the demand not there? I mention Fender because that appears to be the tube amp of choice that most manufacturers want to clone and (what most tube amp steelers want to play through).

Hamilton Barnard · From: Oro Valley, Arizona (deceased)

Fender does continue to offer two versions of the 100 watt Twin Reverb; the 'evil' and the '65 reissue. Only a few years ago Fender offered the custom Vibrasonic made especially for steel, but dropped it for lack of sales.

The difference in sound pressure between 100 watts and 135 watts is near nothing.

Mike Brown · From: Meridian, Mississippi USA

Hello Larry,
I'll "step up to the plate" and give you an explanation about tube steel amps, since Peavey Electronics has been an avid supporter of the steel community for over 25 years.

I play steel guitar, answer steel guitar amp questions via daily e-mail, letters and by phone, as well as attend the various steel conventions around the country. The fact of the matter is, that the steel guitar market is small in comparison to six string players and there is not enough support for a tube steel amp. The majority of players that I have worked with prefer solid state steel amps. I also prefer SS over tube for this application

After over 25 years with Peavey, I have found that there is probably a 1000:1 ratio of six string guitarists versus steel guitarists. So, the obvious conclusion from this is why Fender, Gibson, Marshall and numerous amp companies do not even consider offering a steel guitar amp period. There are some companies such as Carter Steel Guitars that offer a low cost quality steel in their product line though. I believe that this will "spur" the interests of musicians who have always liked the steel guitar and wanted to play one, but were intimidated by its complexity. The music community has changed and you see steel guitar being used in nearly every catagory these days, ie; Gospel(Robert Randolph), rock(Dire Straits, Yes, Bruce Springsteen, Cheryl Crow), Country(needless to state). So I, like many others hope to be a part of the expansion of steel guitar interests. Think about it, a keyboard can't reproduce a steel guitar faithfully!

Since 1974, we have consistantly offered two steel amps in our product line. Other manufacturers use one of their existing tube models and state that it is a "bonefide" steel amp.

The bottom line is that there are not enough players for a company to invest megabucks in designing and manufacturing of a tube steel amp. If you think about it, an amp that has enough power for steel guitar reproduction at stage levels is HEAVY! However, you could use components like a Peavey Tubefex and Classic Series power amp to create this setup. These are obsolete items from our product line now, but can still be found at reasonable prices on the market.

From our experience in the steel amp market, there has been very few requests for an amp of this type.

Mike Brown
Peavey Electronics Corporation

Joerg Hennig · From: Bavaria, Germany

Just a note on Fenders. There have been Fender tube amps with more than 100 watts in the past, such as the Twin Reverb from 1976 until early ´80s with 135 watts, which I use as my main steel amp, and the Super Twin with 180 and a very particular tone shaping circuit; I never tried that one but just guess that it would make an excellent steel amp as well. I´d be interested if anybody around here plays one.
I don´t know if you can say that there´s not much of an audible difference between 100 and 135 watts. Rather it seems to me that almost no two Twins are exactly alike. I have played through a 100 watt Twin that sounded fine but seemed a bit weak even with the volume beyond 5. The one I have now, instead, is loud, and I mean loud. Once I started a soundcheck in a rather big venue, the PA wasn´t running yet, the volume was just at 2. All the band members yelled at me: "Turn down the volume on that Fender, it´s killing us!" This amp has definitely more than enough power and clean headroom to handle the steel.
The 135 watt Twin wasn´t too popular with guitar players because it was "too clean" for many of them, but might be interesting for steel players for that very reason. It´s a pity they no longer make it.
The Fender Twin Reverb is my favorite steel guitar amp by far. It´s an integral part of my sound. THAT SOUND is worth all the dragging around and electronical hassles that might appear (but don´t have to if it´s kept well). I will NEVER trade it for a solid state amp. Ever. Just my opinion.
Regards, Joe H.

[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 11 October 2001 at 02:09 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Joe, I played a Super Twin Reverb for a lot of years. It's a fantastic steel amp! It is unGODly heavy, though. That "tone shaping" circuit is actually an active graphic equalizer, and believe me...it will do tones that NO OTHER single-unit amp ever made will do. It just got too heavy for me, and as the music changed, I had to carry more and more stomp boxes to keep up with the variety of sounds that were being used. The only other drawback with this amp is that certain tone settings will all but negate the reverb, since the E-Q is after the 'verb in the circuit.

Also, the later model ("advertised" 135-watt) twins actuually put out less than that in "useable power". By the time you push 4 6L6's up to that RMS wattage, the distortion becomes really noticeable.

Ron Whitworth · From: Yuma,Ariz.USA Yeah they say it's a DRY heat !!

Another note to add about Fender tube amps.
Hamilton is correct in what he said above but he forgot about 1 more newer Fender all tube amp.It is also a 100 watt workhorse.
It is called the Dual Professional.
Made by the Fender Custom Shop.Has 2x12" Celestion speakers in a cab just a Twin was.
It is pretty expensive but it is all point to point wired inside just like the older Twin's-no printed circuit boards in it.It comes in white tolex covering with a red grill cloth.I know this because i happen to own one that i acquired in a trade a while back..Later..Ron

[This message was edited by Ron Whitworth on 10 October 2001 at 07:27 PM.]

[This message was edited by Ron Whitworth on 10 October 2001 at 07:28 PM.]

Bill Crook · From: Goodlettsville, TN , Spending my kid's inheritance

The way to pronounce Steel Amp:

"P-E-A-V-E-Y"

Larry R · From: Navasota, Tx.

No doubt that Peavey has served the Steel guitar community well and offers good products. My ears are bent toward a warm tone. There are probably no 2 Peavey amps alike that sound the same. Some maybe more sterile than others. Has Peavey tried to incorporate a newer tone cirtcuit to take away the treble tone and put more bottom in it?
Is the 1000 Peavey's latest steel amp?

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I don't want this thread to turn into a Peavey "love fest", but I don't find the Peavey steel amps "sterile" or no low end. The newer Nashville 400's that do not have the factory tone mod will not have the low end that they should but the factory tone mod takes care of that.

At least the Peavey's work, not like the Compaq Rockwell HCF modems.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Mike Brown has some great information here (as usual). He is right that no tube amp manufacturer in his right mind is going to make a high powered tube steel amp, because the market is so tiny. I know that many players honestly prefer the sound of transistor amps, but I must say that I know a number of well known players who have told me that they went to high powered transisor amps largely for the weight and volume issues: they could have a very loud, very clean amp that sounded decent that weighs less than a twin. But I know a couple who are known for tone who have told me they liked their tone through tube amps better.

If you want a tube amp sound but loud there are a few ways to go. One is to always mike it. I play most of my gigs with a single 15 watt tube amp, and I have all the clean power I need, but there are good PAs at all of these gigs.
Another is to find a tube amp of any power that you really like, then take a line out from the amp output, using something like the H&K Red Box or a THD Hotplate and feed that into a transistor power amp. You will get most of the sound of the tube amp. Important note: you must take the output from the power amp section and convert it to a line signal. The power amp stage is more important than the preamp stage in getting that 'tube amp sound'.

Another is to get a couple of amps. A couple of nice twins will get you as loud as you will ever need (in my experience the 85 blackface twins have the most clean headroom).

Another is to put together a 'component' tube system. Find a tube or other preamp and use a tube power amp, like the Peavey Classic 60 (with 2X6L6 tubes), the Mesa amps, or my favorite, the VHT 2/1/90 power amp, with a massive 90 watts of totally clean power per channel (easily loud enough to play the LA Coliseum unmiked).

Note that none of these solutions will be as light as hauling a single Peavey 200 watt steel amp.

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www.tyacktunes.com

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Another thing to consider if you are looking for really, really loud and really really clean tube amps. Get a good old Ampeg SVT bass head. We are talking about some serious headroom and low end. 6X6550 tubes putting out at least 300 watts. I would never, ever want to play a gig where I would need one of these things for stage volume. But when I get the Megadeath gig, this is what I would start with. The head weighs as much as a twin.

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www.tyacktunes.com

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Also, in the Ampeg line, are the early VT-22 amps with two 12s, great for those metal occasions and I use a Peavey 1201 with an EVL, a very complimentary mismatch.

Rich Weiss · From: Woodland Hills, CA, USA

I've been pretty happy using a 2.2 Pod for a Fender tube simulation, (which sounds good) and going through a Session 400 (with mod) Sort of gets me the best of both worlds.

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

I own 5 different old Fender amps. From the meager but melodious Deluxe-Reverb equipped with an EVM 12 to a Vibrosonic Alnico JBL. I like the Sound of the Super Reverb the best but it lacks the headroom that I require. I have ABed this against "industry standard" steel amps. Conclusion: Taste is subjective. We all have different needs and preferences. I have recently heard a friend play through a Princeton Amp, live with, (of all things) a Gibson Reverb. It sounded great! Viva la difference. I occasionally use my 70's 50w 2/12 Marshall just to shake things up. Here's a great sound: a push pull through a 147 or 147 Leslie. Boy, is that huge. I like Fenders, but I'm glad we don't all use the same gear. Try a Vox AC 30!! Wow.

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

Chas has got something there. Those vt-22 amps are really loud and clean with a tone of tone control (especially with the midrange area). Also the idea of using 'mismatched' speakers is great. A jbl/bw with a softer speaker (less hyped upper mid) is a great combination. It sounds way bigger than two of the same type of speaker.

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