The Steel Guitar Forum

I just heard this for the first time and I think it's funny as hell.

I Agree With Pat Metheny

I Agree With Pat Metheny
Richard Thompson

I agree with Pat Metheny
Kenny's talents are too teeny
He deserves the crap he's going to get
'Overdubbed himself on Louis
What a musical chop suey
Raised his head above the parapet

Now Louis Armstrong was the king
He practically invented swing
Hero of the twentieth century
'Did duets with many a fella
"Fatha" Hines, Bing, Hoagy, Ella
Strange he never thought of Kenny G

A meeting of great minds, how nice
Like Einstein and Sporty Spice
Digitally fused in an abortion
Oh, Kenny fans will doubtless rave
While Satchmo turns inside his grave
Soprano man's bit off more than his portion

Brainless pentatonic riffs
Display our Kenny's arcane gifts
But we don't care, his charms are so beguiling
He does play sharp, but let's be fair
He has such lovely crinkly hair
We hardly notice, we're too busy smiling

How does he hold those notes so long?
He must be a genius. Wrong!
He just has the mindlessness to do it
He makes Britney sound like scat
If this is jazz I'll eat my hat
An idle threat, I'll never have to chew it

So next time you're in a rendezvous
And Kenny's sound comes wafting through
Don't just wince, eliminate the cause
Rip the tape right off the muzak
Pull the plug, or steal a fuse, Jack
The whole room will drown you in applause

Yes, Kenny G has gone too far
The gloves are off, it's time to spar
Grab your hunting rifle, strap your colt on
It's open season on our Ken
Yet I await the moment when
We lay off him and start on Michael Bolton

Oh, I agree with Pat Metheny
Kenny's talents are too teeny

(Reproduced without permission; I assume copyright lies with the author.)

<font size=1><font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mike Shefrin on 08 December 2006 at 04:54 PM.]</p></FONT>

Now, THAT is wonderful.

<font size=1><font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mike Shefrin on 08 December 2006 at 04:58 PM.]</p></FONT>

Here's a link to the lyrics of the song "I Agree With Pat Metheny" by Richard Thompson: http://www.till.com/blog/archives/2005/03/i_agree_with_ri.html

There's also an MP3 of him perfoming the song. Too funny!

db

Mike we are on the same pages...

I just posted this in Gene Jone's thread I guess about the same time...

His worldwide fan base has earned him numerous music awards as well as record sales that consistently top the one million mark for each new release. In addition, he's recorded both the best-selling instrumental album of all time and the best-selling holiday album of all time.

His latest effort has already conquered the jazz world, debuting at Number One on the Contemporary and Current Overall Jazz Charts. http://www.voanews.com/english/Entertainment/2006-12-04-voa22.cfm
http://www.delafont.com/music_acts/Kenny-G.htm

On Dec. 1, 1997, Kenny G also set a Guinness World Record by holding the longest sustained musical note in history, an "F" flaton his soprano sax for a total of 45 minutes and 47 seconds.

Saxophonist Kenny G has more to brag about than his world-class horn-playing. He's now the best golfer among music-makers, according to Golf Digest's ranking of the "Top 100 in Music."

Kenny G is the most reviled composer in contemporary instrumental music. A bombastic performer who can barely play his soprano sax beyond a few trademark gimmicks, he is nonetheless a platinum-plated shepherd to throngs of "smooth jazz" sheep, who don't know Charlie Parker from Parker Posey. Hard-bitten improvisers, who have studied the jazz tradition inside and out and reap the rewards of their lifelong efforts with regular supper-club gigs (if they're lucky), rarely shy away from publicly flogging the G-man. But percussionist Mike Dillon, electric pianist Brian Haas, and saxophonist Skerik -- as the Dead Kenny G's -- take the personal assault to unprecedented lows. The musicians' touring posters feature a lynched caricature of their despised namesake, while their T-shirts depict a bare-assed po' Kenny sodomized by his own horn. This is a punk response to a protracted feud: sick, violent, immature, and likely hailed (behind closed doors) by serious jazz cats and their fans as a long overdue comeuppance.

So what's the problem?

Jesse, IMO your post does an excellent job of distinguishing between Kenny G and serious jazz players.

For much of jazz's history, the greatest players - those who devote their energy to understanding, then advancing, the music - have usually been able to lament their relatively low sales. Now, if they choose, they can also lament that many people think what Kenny G plays is jazz (and that if it sells well, it's obviously great).

However, I think Pat Metheny shot past the mark. I think Kenny G overdubbed on Louis Armstrong is tacky, but it made me sick to see how far Metheny went in criticizing him. (For that matter, I can't really see posthumous overdubs as anything other than novelty tracks, always in dubious taste. It puzzles me that Pat took this one so seriously.)

Same goes for the description of the Dead Kenny G's - I agree that this is reaching "unprecedented lows." Some players may take pleasure in this, but it's a base pleasure I don't wish to share. Vindictiveness is not a value I aspire to. (I'll cut Richard Thompson some slack because his purpose was humor, and the guy's an equal-opportunity mocker. Same principle applies, though.) I think the best rule here is "Live and let live," and the players I respect most just keep making their own music, not wasting energy with personal attacks.

<font size=2>At the same time, I'm sure Kenny can take the criticism. As the saying goes, he's probably crying all the way the the bank.</font><font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Eric McEuen on 08 December 2006 at 10:19 AM.]</p></FONT>

The more I hear about Pat Metheny's attack on Kenny G the more I'm convinced that Pat Metheny is suffering from a case of "sour grapes" because Kenny G's music sales and popularity have surpassed his own. Pat Metheny is a vindictive cry baby and should concentrate all this wasted energy on his own career!

Yes, of course Metheny and others resent G's huge sales and popluarity. That's the whole point!

If my 87-year-old mother, who has never played music, were to buy a soprano saxophone, and practice for a couple of weeks, and play like Kenny G, then I think that she would deserve a lot of praise. I even think Pat Metheny would compliment her. So it's not about the music.

I've been hearing this bitch about Kenny G for so long from my hard core jazz buddies I guess it's never gonna blow over. I have a friend who comes out from Vegas every week to play a couple of clubs out here, he's a great Sax player and he like's Kenny G.

It was Clive Davis that pushed Kenny into the duet and the standards thing and wanted him to do it while keeping his signiture sound. I don't know if Kenny is bound by contract to Clive to put out albums when he say's and how, but it looks that way to me? From what I heard he didn't want to do those projects and tried to talk Clive out of it?

Pat made the mistake of going to a different country and telling a school of children not to buy any Kenny G albums or listen to his music, that's what crossed the line in my book.

Honestly, Frank Morgan is my main love on horn (hard core bop). Kenny G calls his stuff "Instrumental Pop". Kenny has a huge fan base world wide, but it's his fan base. Kenny G doesn't stop hard core jazzer's from selling albums, that's all on them just like the rest of us. I've admitted I play one of his songs (midnight motion) and I tried to study a book on him with note for note transcriptions and theory approaches. I can't play 10 measures of unending 32nd notes like him and gave up trying to. I do know horn players however and he's good at what he does. He's lucky to have his own sound and to have made some good dough at it in the process. Give it a rest already, gees... <font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 08 December 2006 at 02:00 PM.]</p></FONT>

Uh-oh. Didn't we go through this on our "snooze jazz" discussion?

Sorry for the lapse of judgement, I should just stay out of this kind of stuff. <font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 08 December 2006 at 03:43 PM.]</p></FONT>

This thing pops up on music discussion forums every so often, and people like to have a little fun with it-but didn't the original "treatise" that appeared on Metheny's website happen in 2001?

We're talking five years ago. I wonder if someone asks Pat about it today if he wouldn't reply with something along the lines like: "Oh, you're bringing THAT up? Hey, that's water LONG gone under the bridge."

I could be completely wrong about Metheny's current take on the thing, but some of the posts written on these threads are from the perspective that this is a fairly recent occurence.

------------------
Mark
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 08 December 2006 at 02:31 PM.]</p></FONT>

Well, here's another perspective.
http://www.culturekiosque.com/jazz/portrait/rhekenny.html

<SMALL>he's recorded both the best-selling instrumental album of all time and the best-selling holiday album of all time.</SMALL>

I'm not sure that $$ sells should be a benchmark for the quality of music.

If you go by that logic then the Volkswagen Beetle should be the greatist car ever built, since it's the all time best-selling auto.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Alvin Blaine on 08 December 2006 at 05:26 PM.]</p></FONT>

Apparently, how long you can hold a note is the benchmark for quality music. I think that the guy who painted children with those big, big eyes holds the record for painting the longest straight line. Clearly one of the great artists of all time. Hey--let's talk about John Tesh, Yanni & Enya--I hate leaving out other inspiring artists.

<SMALL>Yes, of course Metheny and others resent G's huge sales and popluarity. That's the whole point! </SMALL>

I'm glad someone agrees with me!

If my 87-year-old mother, who has never played music, were to buy a soprano saxophone, and practice for a couple of weeks, and play like Kenny G, then I think that she would deserve a lot of praise.

That is entirely possible--might take about a month. But if she can hold a note for 45 minutes like Kenny G, now that would be praiseworthy!

Pat Metheny has had artistic and financial success--I doubt there are any 'sour grapes'. Jazz musicians are typically very critical and protective over jazz. Pat Metheny has caught his own flack for not playing what the establishment considers jazz. Rest assured, Pat Metheny can stand toe to toe with any of the greatest jazz guitarists who've ever lived. I've heard him in every context. I doubt highly one can say the same for Kenny G.

As far as him getting nasty and personal with Kenny G, I don't think the attacks were personal beyond stating what type of soulless person he must be to contrive a duet with Louis Armstrong. The rest of the comments were directed at his playing ability.

I can just imagine the flames that would fly if he ever did a posthumous duet with Jerry Byrd....

It's really not possible considering that the sorprano sax is the hardest of all the sax family to play in tune, but I guess you guy's never heard what Coltrane had to say about it?

Any musician who goes out of his way to impose his negative waves on a large group of children concerning another successful musician is messed up. Any one who thinks that this is cool is just as messed up. This whole thing took place back in 2000.

Kenny's fan base probably don't know or care that he is in the record books for this and that. That's not why he has a big fan base world wide? In fact, I'd say he created his own sucessful genre(instrumental pop). Kenny learned how to comunicate to his fans in a way that touched them, most straight ahead jazzer's for the most part never get that part of it and that's why they don't sell very well.

I know he has sold 70 million albums, but of what?

You see, Kenny G. hasn't "defiled" anything done by Armstrong, nor by any other artist. Millions upon millions of Armstrong's original recording of this classic are still out here, pristine and pure.

Borrowing from, adding to, modifying in part or whole, are all accepted and acceptable practices in art. You (and I) may not like what Kenny G. did with "What a Wonderful World," but there are many thousands of examples of this practice in all aspects of art (not to mention science, engineering, politics, and whatever else you might come up with). Now, the better examples are probably more subtle than what Kenny G. apparently did, but this is hardly an isolated incident, and it defiles nothing. Offend the listener, perhaps, but it did nothing to harm the original work.

Consider this: There are certainly fans of Rodgers and Hammerstein who are incensed with what Coltrane did with "My Favourite Things," and who feel that the song has been "defiled." They would be wrong, as is Metheny.

Let´s face it. Kenny did only what many others also do -see rap and hip hop. Take an old famous song and play/sing over it. And they make money with this and are selling lots of records.

But here's what none of the these other artists have done including Pat or Mike Neer. Back in 1999 when Kenny came out with the duet of "what a wonderful world" he donated $250,000.00 to a music fund to help keep music in schools and donated all of the profits from the Armstrong duet to the fund, which I believe has surpased the million dollar mark a long time ago (Loui would have liked this because he dug kids and was into helping them). Neither Pat nor Mike Neer talk about this, wonder why? <font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 09 December 2006 at 09:31 PM.]</p></FONT>

Well, if you'd like to nominate me as being a Kenny G detractor on the level of Pat Metheny, well, I accept.

Frankly, I just thought the Richard Thompson song was funny. If you can't see anything wrong in what G did, well, there's really nothing else to talk about.

So Kenny G and John Tesh are getting on an elevator together and Kenny turns to John and says "man, this place is happening..."