Singers vs. Steelers

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 15 Dec 2005 1:26 pm

It seems to me that there must be over a million great singers in the world, and less than a thousand great pedal steel guitarists. Why should we care if someone is a great singer? It's a very common talent. We all know several people personally who are as great at singing as any of the big stars.

I don't even buy vocal albums anymore. Why bother? If I like the steel player, I'll buy his CD, not one where's he's playing an unheralded supporting role behind some "great singer". You can hear great singers anywhere. Sometimes I just wish they'd shut up.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 15 Dec 2005 1:47 pm

Bobby, you are talkng as a musician not as an average person who goes out to hear music. Unfortunately for us musicians the lead singer is the focus of the group. The audience doesn't even know what we play. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 15 December 2005 at 05:50 PM.]

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 15 Dec 2005 2:22 pm

How come there are no singing steelers?

Terry

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 15 Dec 2005 2:26 pm

OK, b0b, but tell us how you really feel about it; don't hold back now.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 15 Dec 2005 2:51 pm

bOb, it's the difference between words and music ....

Mat Rhodes · Post by **Mat Rhodes** » 15 Dec 2005 3:09 pm

Bobby, at the risk of being flamed, I would argue that even though I love the steel, I'm not so sure that one player alone can hold my interest as long as a good singer who sings a well-written song. Blame "American Idol" or the media's focus on singers as being the only valid frontmen, but even the most talented, experienced, and unique steelers start to sound alike (to me) if I hear too much at once.

Besides, my wife and I can't make fun of steelers because they're doing their jobs seriously. At least if a good singer dresses or looks stupid, we have the visual element to get a good laugh.

My idea of great steeling is when it's applied in small doses intermixed with the lyrics. I remember more of the melodies that way. Casey Olsen and Bobby Ingano are just a few who are excellent at this. Then if the doses aren't enough, then a brief, well-played solo that matches the song's character does the trick for me

.

Matt[This message was edited by Matt Rhodes on 15 December 2005 at 03:30 PM.]

Tommy Minniear · Post by **Tommy Minniear** » 15 Dec 2005 3:12 pm

Big Jim Vest is one fine playing/singing steel guitarist.
I know where b0b is coming from. My purchase of steel guitar CD's is way ahead of my purchases of vocal CD's in recent years. Although, Darrell McCall, Gene Watson, Justin Trevino, etc. will bring me off my wallet in a hurry.

Tommy Minniear

Lawrence Sullivan · Post by **Lawrence Sullivan** » 15 Dec 2005 3:31 pm

Bobby I'm with you, years ago several instrumentals made the top, as in Chet Atlins, Jorgan Ingman etc I don't recall any of steel guitar but I have a couiple tapes of Little Roy Wiggins that I sure have played a lot, so bring em back
Respectfully Larry

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 15 Dec 2005 3:50 pm

I buy cd's mostly for the singer but I certinly pay attention to the musicians on the cd or in the road band.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 15 Dec 2005 4:04 pm

I like instrumental music, but I also love to hear a good singer. The key, to me, is balance. Where I part company with the normal showbiz modus operandi is the "star system".

There's a thread on Rick Danko (which drifts into a discussion of The Band, of course). This is what I'm talkin' about. Voices and instruments in service of a song.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 15 Dec 2005 4:09 pm

It's all about the song first. Secondly, it is about a unique voice. I've been steelin 2 yrs now, and couldn't pick 2 steelers from the rest on a bet!
Having a unique voice is the single most important thing for a musical career. Every steel player sounds alike to the average person, whether we like it or not. But it is easy to identify a voice. Think about it, I know I'm right!

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 15 Dec 2005 7:00 pm

I don't want to say anything that sounds negitive please don't think my words are. I too love instrumental albums and have a ton of them. But as a singer its always been a admiration thing with me about the pickers.I have had the pleasure to have some great players in my bands and they always made me feel up to do my best as they did theirs. Any singer should know that without the (backbone of music) the instumentalist he or she is lost.I travel to many steel shows not to show my wares but to hear my heros,and yes I'll say it again. The backbone of music.Most singer would love to trade places with pickers (boy have I tried)and often make a effort as I have done however the voice also is an instrument and instruments usually blend in pretty good.

------------------
Smiley 23-9 Crank&pull&push pro model Deluxe with auto voice tuner and string changer.500ft.roll.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 15 Dec 2005 7:03 pm

A good singer is one who can play bass or drums and sing a simple turn-around so we can back to the serious things, like steel and fiddle. If he can't play an instrument, what good is he, unless of course he can grunt the equipment to the stage and back to the truck, or maybe run sound?

[This message was edited by James Morehead on 15 December 2005 at 07:08 PM.]

Dan E. Hoff · Post by **Dan E. Hoff** » 15 Dec 2005 7:10 pm

I prefer a steel player, or most any other instrumentalist, doing a song over a vocalist, about three to one...I mainly buy instrumental albums...kinda go along with Bobbe Lee on this one...

Brett Anderson · Post by **Brett Anderson** » 15 Dec 2005 8:14 pm

Jeez b0b. I'm a wannabe steeler but have always been a singer. A great one I'm told. I am critical of other singers too. When you talk about great singers I wonder who you think is great. Unfortunately, we are a necessary evil. I'm not sure what you listen to but I don't hear that many great singers anywhere. Certainly not on country radio. I love to hear great steel players but I also love to hear great singers. Always have. On behalf of all of us singers I am sorry. We'll try to do better.

Brett Anderson · Post by **Brett Anderson** » 15 Dec 2005 8:23 pm

Oh, and why you should care is I started listening to Haggard, Jones, Gene Watson all the ligitimate greats in my early teens. I was learning vocal licks, (stealing them)listening to and absorbing all I could to someday be able to stand in front of people and perform for them. And I've been doing that for 15 years. Hours and hours on end with my cassette player. I'll put my time in against any steel player or singer anywhere's practice regimine. I've worked very hard and I deserve to be heard. That's why you should care about this singer anyway. Well, that and I'm a a paying member of this forum.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 15 Dec 2005 8:45 pm

And, of course, singers are the principal employers of steel guitarists. If there were no singers, we'd all be just preachin' to the choir at steel guitar shows...

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 15 Dec 2005 8:51 pm

Jim.who mentioned a unique voice,It's been a long time since I heard one.I will list just a few,Hank sr,Hank Snow,Hank Locklin,Marty Robbins,Faron Young,Earnest Tubb,Jimmy Dickins,Ferlin Huskey,Eddie Arnold,Ray Price,John Cash,Carl Smith,Jim Reeves,Johnny Paycheck,Jean Sherpard,Kitty Wells,Connie Smith,Lorreta,etc,etc.These were artist that as soon as they sang one word,you knew immediately who they were [if you liked them or not]at least you could tell them apart,they each had their own STYLE,not today just a bunch of clones[except for a few rare exceptions].Also there are monster players today that sound alike because I think they are forced to play what the producer wants instead of what they really feel.As same as the vocals were unique when we had REAL country music,so were the pickers,They all had their individual styles such Don Helms,Roy Wiggins,Bud Isaacs,Jerry Byrd,Leon McAuliffe,Speedy West,Noel Boggs,Ralph Mooney,Tom Brumley,Billy Byrd,Grady Martin,Chet Atkins,Hank Garland,on and on. These were real artist vocal and pickers that did not have to put on a cheap sideshow to hide their lack of talent.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 16 Dec 2005 3:08 am

b0b, are you ok ? I'm starting to worry about you..

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 16 Dec 2005 3:25 am

I'm a little surprised at Bobby's post, unless it was slightly tongue-in-cheek.

I love the 'voice' of the pedal steel guitar, but it's only just one more texture on the broad pallette of musical sounds. I thoroughly enjoyed my two visits to ISGC, but, even 'though I'd been listening to some master players, I was certainly ready for a change of music when the weekend was over!

I'd also disagree with a previous post regarding identifiable voices - I'd like to assure Charles Davidson that, for those of us not raised on a diet of country & western music, most of the names he lists all sound remarkably similar....

Oh, and I think I can recognise Kenny Chesney when I hear him - I don't like it very much, but I can recognise him.

I guess that makes our Kenny 'unique' as well.(

)

RR

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 16 Dec 2005 4:02 am

I'm with you Roger.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 16 Dec 2005 4:34 am

The wonderful thing about music is finding your voice--whether it's inside or on an instrument.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 16 Dec 2005 4:40 am

It's all about sex, b0b. Unlike the real world, which is mostly about money and power, music for most people feeds their fantasy life (as do movies and TV). When people get tired of grubbing out their tiny little corners of money and power, they want to cut loose and dream.

Think about what the lyric contents of most songs are really about: boinking. Wanting to, used to, about to, wish you had, etc. Now, who best to deliver the messages, and serve as the focal nexus for those thoughts? The hot young swivel-hipped babe with the golden tresses, or the fat old guy sitting down making the whiny noises? Maybe when some songs about going to the bathroom and refinishing furniture take over the Billboard charts, us fat old guys will come roaring to the fore; don't bet all your marbles just yet.

If you consider the Boinkability Factor (or "B-Factor" for short) as being the primary driving force behind success in the music world, even a lot of very strange things like rap, heavy metal, punk rock and opera start to make more sense. It's no accident that each generation seizes upon music that their parents are guaranteed to hate, music that fuses a message of rebellion and independance with an insanely high B-Factor to match typical, healthy adolescent priorities.

There is quite a seamless progression from Sinatra to Elvis to Jagger to Alice Cooper to Sid Vicious to Billy Idol to 2 Live Crew to Ice-T to Snoop Doggy Dog to...(?) Spit on the past; boink me. Marilyn Manson IS your grandparent's Frank Sinatra. Where does the fat old guy with the steel guitar fit into this progression? What's HIS B-Factor?

Kenny Burford · Post by **Kenny Burford** » 16 Dec 2005 4:54 am

Somewhere near the beginning of this thread the statement was made that there has never been any steelers that received the public notoriety that some of the other instrumentalist in the music industry have and I would have to agree. But there are some that have done a darned good job of becoming publicly known for playing instrumentals on the steel guitar, such as Lloyd Green, John Hughey, Leon Mc Culliff (sp.), but one thing that I think helped promote the instrument and the players more than anything was the Sho-Bud Show on WSM-650 that came on early Sunday morning right after the ET Midnight Jamboree back in the late 70s. Personally I thought it was a great show and it provided exposure for so many great steel guitar recording projects. I wish WSM would broadcast another show like again in the same time slot. It made driving home after the gig much more enjoyable.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 16 Dec 2005 5:36 am

I've been listening to a couple of Wilburn Brothers CD's that came to me from Amazon this week. They don't make music like that today. The harmony and chord patterns are simply unbelievable.
That's why today's singers can go sit down.

On second look, the title of this thread looks like it oughta be about a football game

[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 16 December 2005 at 12:29 PM.]