The Steel Guitar Forum

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 5:59 pm**

No posing, no hot licks just to show off ... just pure communication through music ...

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aWa6aChSf1w"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aWa6aChSf1w" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 22 April 2006 at 07:00 PM.]

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 6:13 pm**

Sweet!
Thanks for posting!

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 6:37 pm**

Just plain stunning.
I was at a Joe Pass solo concert in the late 1970s. Just Joe, a folding chair, a guitar, and a little Polytone amp. Half the audience were guitar players; you could feel the collective shivers of awe when he played particularly tasty lines or chord voicings.
The clip brought back little piece of that evening. What a master!

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 7:03 pm**

Yeah, no hot licks.

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 7:56 pm**

Now that was amazing. I love Joe Pass.

Interesting to compare this next the the McLaughlin piece. What a difference.

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 8:26 pm**

Yes, this is jazz guitar. Of course, it's not about licks, but Joe had more than his share. I love it - I also was lucky enough to see him a couple of times, and he always blew my mind.

But why is it necessary to compare to McLaughlin? Can't they just be appreciated (or not) in their own right? Oh, well - I suppose this comes with the territory for musicians.

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 8:34 pm**

Wonderful that we get to relive such great playing!

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 8:37 pm**

.

I find I have to self censor myself more and more on this forum. Post edited.[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 22 April 2006 at 09:48 PM.]

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 8:46 pm**

Posted: **22 Apr 2006 10:49 pm**

I DID play this and JM back to back, and loved 'em both. I think Bill and Dave are saying the same thing, right? I think Bill just meant it's two ways of being great. Dave, you just meant that you don't have to choose between the two, right?

It's hard enough to know what people mean when they're talking, but even harder when they are writing.

------------------
"Drinking up the future, and living down the past"--unknown singer in Phoenix

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 3:56 am**

Bill, self censuring is allowed..

most of us should follow your lead !

This is brilliant...but typical Joe Pass..
Every great guitar player ..post Joe Pass , comments on what an infleence this man has been..and still is...

and yes we do not have to choose....

all we have to do is choose to LISTEN or NOT...

I have a Joe Pass Guitar lesson VHS from perhpas the 80's I have only gone thru the first 15 or 20 minutes...I have used that study for over 20 years now..

1,6,2,5 relationships..and substitutions...

maybe I should watch another 20 minutes ! [This message was edited by Tony Prior on 23 April 2006 at 04:57 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 23 April 2006 at 09:33 AM.]

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 6:46 am**

Joe did a show awhile before he died with Roy Clark, I believe it was called 'American Masters'. They played awesome versions of Hank Williams songs. Playing next to Joe really brought out the guitar player in Roy Clark.
Great stuff
Jay

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 7:35 am**

"I think Bill just meant it's two ways of being great."

Thanks for the attempt at making my remarks palitable to the group Darryl, but not that is not what I meant.

What I meant was, what a difference between listening to a guitarist who is basically a brilliant fusion guitarist and comes out of a rock and roll and blues tradition trying to play jazz side by side next to someone who comes out of Jazz tradition playing Jazz.

Playing fast licks is not what Jazz is about. Joe Pass demonstrated what Jazz is about. Mclaughlin did not (do I need to add the redundant IMHO to each of these statements?).

This is not to take away from McLaughlin (who I'm happy to listen to on his own turf), but playing on Miles's post-second quintet recordings does not make him a jazz guitarist any more than playing with Herbie Hancock makes Christina Aguilera a jazz singer.

My self editing comes because it seems to upset people on this forum when people express a strong opinion. Believe it or not, I'm making a strong attempt not to rock the boat and give people agita. So more and more I post what I think, and then either delete it or dumb it down.

But if you want my unvarnished opinion: if you can view both of those clips side by side and think they are "both great" then you don't know anything about jazz. And that fact is so obvious to me that one of these performances is light years better than the other, that it really doesn't matter to me how many names you call me, or how much you flame me. It would be like someone making impassioned arguements that the moon is really the sun and the sun is really the moon. I might listen to your arguements and remain quiet or nod my head, but I'll be thinking: there is a guy who is crazy and doesn't know what he is talking about.

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 8:14 am**

I love the way Joe Pass plays. Thanks for posting this.

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 8:40 am**

Bill, I'm upset because I didn't get to read your initial post then got upset again because you deleted the post because it may upset other folks !

Isn't there a wash out somewhere in there ?

Poor JM..he had no clue what he was gettin' into when he did that Miles gig with GB...

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 23 April 2006 at 09:41 AM.]

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 9:07 am**

very cool....Joe Pass has always been my favorite jazz guitarist....what model Gibson is he playing in the video?

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 3:03 pm**

His main axe was a Gibson ES-175, although he endorsed a signature model by Ibanez and used it occaisionally.

Joe Pass is another of my all-time jazz favorites. Along with Django, Wes Montgomery, Howard Roberts, Barney Kessell, Tal Farlow, Herb Ellis, Mundell Lowe, George Benson, and even our now "infamous" John McLaughlin and too many others to list. Wonder what would happen if we posted a link to some Alan Holdsworth, whose playing I also love?.....

I'd hate to try and pick an absolute favorite because with me they're all great, just different. I also love B.B. King, Andres Segovia, Chet Atkins, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Robben Ford, and countless others and consider them all as equals in their own rights though their styles are different.

Thanks for posting this clip of one of the greats. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 23 April 2006 at 04:58 PM.]

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 3:26 pm**

The whole John McLaughlin issue reminds me a bit of the "this ain't country" threads.

JM and Joe Pass are both awsome jazz players in my book, but coming from completely different traditions. You could argue it's "fire and ice". JM's playing is pure passion while JP's is pure sophistication. You can like/dislike either, but it becomes a "vanilla versus chocolate" beyond that.

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 3:29 pm**

Yep.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 23 April 2006 at 04:50 PM.]

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 4:15 pm**

I love this chord progression. I recently transcribed "Bird of Paradise" by Charlie Parker, which is the chord progression "All the things you are". I was just looking at a theory book that Joe signed for me many years ago, what a great artist. In fact, he was my first guitar teacher thru one of his books when I was a little kid. [This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 23 April 2006 at 05:18 PM.]

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 4:23 pm**

"You can like/dislike either, but it becomes a "vanilla versus chocolate" beyond that. "

Hmm...I'd say it's more like Ben and Jerry's versus Tofuti.

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 7:03 pm**

I'm not certain but I believe an ES-175 has 2 pickup's while the guitar Joe is playing in the video has only one.

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 7:13 pm**

Could Joe Pass do what JM does so well, no. Could JM sound like JP if he wanted to, yea. Is Joe Pass all there is to Jazz guitar, no. Dang Bill, why the big hang up, I musta missed something somewhere. I didn't see that video clip that started this thing about JM verses JP, but if JM had a bad song, I mean it happens to everyone more than once in their life. With that indian fusion stuff that JM got down, it seems to me he could easily swing notes like anyone if he wanted to when it comes to jazz. It's obvious he didn't care to. I have albums from both these artists, and these guys are lucky to have their own voices.

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 7:20 pm**

The ES175 was made in both pickup configurations single and double.

Posted: **23 Apr 2006 7:53 pm**

Dave, you just meant that you don't have to choose between the two, right?

Partly. To me, these are two of the world's finest guitar players - in their own right.

But in part, this also goes back to the "McLaughlin vs Benson" thread, where I made the point that, IMO, these types of players are out of hugely different traditions, and really not comparable. So if they're not comparable, why compare them?

Of course, everybody on this forum is welcome to respectfully offer any opinion they want. I never questioned anybodys "right" to state their opinion - even a very strong opinion. But that "right" also applies to me - I should be entirely free to respectfully question something, which I did. I meant no insult, but I stand by my comment.

Bill H. is correct - the ES 175 is made in both single and double pickup versions.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Joe Pass - Now THIS is jazz guitar

Joe Pass - Now THIS is jazz guitar