American vs. Mexican Teles/Strats

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 19 Feb 2006 8:39 pm

I'm wondering if anybody can tell me the difference in workmanship/materials/hardware between the Mexican and American Strats and Teles.

I've always been curious as to the specific differences that make the American guitars more expensive.

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 19 Feb 2006 10:07 pm

AFAIK, it's mostly labor cost and pickups/electronics. Until recently MIM used poplar bodies, but I think MIM is now alder like USA. I think the quality is pretty good on both, with an individual MIM beating out a USA and visa versa. If you find a MIM that is good you can upgrade the pups and have a fine guitar, or leave it stock and have a fine guitar. I have a 1996 MIM P-bass that is great, and the stock pup sounds fine, I am totally happy with it. A lot of the MIM models have devoted followings for good reason, for example the 50's series, the Jimmy Vaughan strat, the Muddy Waters tele. Some of the Fender Japan is fantastic, too. I think Fender really has it together at their Mexico factory, and I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy a MIM if it felt right to me. I think it's more of a guitar-by-guitar thing than a general trend.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 19 Feb 2006 10:21 pm

I don't know about sound, but I've picked up a US vintage 62 reissue Strat and compared it to my Mexican version, and both look and feel the same.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 19 Feb 2006 11:50 pm

Well, I just did a trade for a MIM Standard Strat, brand new. I have to say that the quality of the Mexican Strats and Teles has greatly improved. It's a totally plain-jane, black, rosewood board Standard Stratocaster, and I really like it. I've used it at two gigs, and it has a sweet sound. I need to pull this apart and look at the pickups - they sound very much like the Japanese reissue pickups from the early 90s that I like so well. These supposedly sport "new improved" pickups this year. From what I hear so far, I agree. The body is definitely alder, but these are all opaque finishes, so who knows how many pieces of wood are glued together. But this is great "bang for the buck".

Now, I am not going to argue that these are comparable to the reissue models, either MIM, MIJ, or US-made. But we're talking pretty much a 2-1 price ratio for the imported reissues and a 4-1 price ratio for the US reissue. The necks on the Standard MIM models are pretty plain, matte-finished, and very white, while the US reissues have nitro lacquer finishes. The necks also don't show nearly as much hand-shaping. The vibrato is a traditional stamped-saddle version (my preference), but with the overly thin inertia block, typical for the non-reissue models. This perhaps cuts the sustain a bit, but it's a pretty easy fix to put a standard inertia block in, I think. For my needs, this stacks up very nicely to something like an American Standard Strat. This ain't no toy - it's a good workingman's axe, IMO. When you consider how much a dollar is worth these days compared to 4 decades ago, these things sell for peanuts.

Edited to add: I agree with Cliff that it's a guitar-by-guitar thing. My buddy Bill at Rainbow Music just got a flock of them in, and I picked this one out. [This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 19 February 2006 at 11:56 PM.]

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 Feb 2006 3:44 am

I have a MIM "Nashville" Tele. It plays and sounds great. I've had it about 4 years and no mechanical or electrical problems. I did replace the original 5 position switch with a Stew-Mac "superswitch" so I could get the standard Tele bridge/neck switch in the middle position and replaced the original "vintage" tuning keys with newer style Fender keys. The old vintage style tuning keys with the hole down the top of the tuning key shaft is a hassle when changing strings.

I've seen several Nashville road pickers using this model guitar. I got the Stew-Mac switch info from one of them.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 20 Feb 2006 4:12 am

I just bought a new American Deluxe Tele. I also have a MIJ Jerry Donahue, and a mongrelized MIM Tele, that I put EMG's, new bridge, knobs, saddles...
As far as fit and finish, the American comes out on top. It's also the most playable of the bunch. The MIJ guitar SOUNDS the most "Tele-like," if you can imagine that. And the Mexican guitar was a good jumping-off place. So I'd put the American and MIJ about even, and the Mex a not-too-distant second. It seems that Fender's American production has improved---THANKFULLY!!!

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 20 Feb 2006 5:57 am

I am told that the new generation MIMs are made with American parts and just assembled in Mexico. I had a MIM Tele that had a beautiful a finish on it as anything out there and played wonderfully.

The only difference we've found is that on the Strats, the MIMs don't have that notch half way into the turn on the tone pots that is now standard on the USA Strats. If that is a concern, it would still be a lot cheaper to upgrade the pots than it would to pay the price for a US model.

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 20 Feb 2006 8:49 am

The old vintage style tuning keys with the hole down the top of the tuning key shaft is a hassle when changing strings.

Funny Jack, I think they're less hassle...

I've played a bunch of the 50's Classic Teles (MIM) that were really nice. I didn't care for the pickups too much, but the neck/body fit and feel thing was great.

They seem to have a lot more vintage vibe than the USA Teles to me.. if that's important to you.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 Feb 2006 9:09 am

The two things that you just can't fix are a warped neck and an overly lightweight, porous fingerboard, a sure tone-killer. Different weight bodies have different tones, but the lighter ones are actually preferred by some people. Poorly seated and finished frets are the next worst thing, but fixable. Other than that it's like an erector set - how much do you like to fidget with stuff, and how much money do you have?

They can take it all, for sure.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 20 Feb 2006 9:17 am

I have my son's MIM Strat (must be at least seven years old)hanging on the wall and I have played it a lot - great guitar. He is threatening to retrieve it sometime soon, which will be a sad day around here! But will also be an excuse to go guitar shopping....

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 20 Feb 2006 9:25 am

The new MIM Standard Strat I described earlier has the same keys that are on the American Standard Strat. Those Kluson-style keys with the hole down the top of the shaft are intended for more vintage-style models. Being a vintage Fender kinda guy, I find those easier to use, but these new keys are just fine too. The frets and neck-fingerboard on this guitar are very nicely done - nice wood, but less hand shaping and different finish. The overall result is still a very nice guitar. As I said above, I think the new pickups are a big improvement over those in older MIM guitars, which I generally considered to be a weak spot. But of course, this is strictly a matter of personal taste.

As Webb mentioned, the MIM Standard Strat doesn't have the TBX control. Fine with me, I never cared for it. I always thought Leo got it right the first time.

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 20 Feb 2006 12:50 pm

I traded a 7 string strat for a Mexican fender strat and it never breaks strings, I play it all the time. I have a fender american standard and I never use it much any more because the mexican plays so nice.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 20 Feb 2006 4:55 pm

Regarding body woods, how does poplar sound compared to alder or ash?

Brad

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 20 Feb 2006 5:15 pm

Brad, lil Jim claims that poplar is just east coast alder, Leo would have used poplar if he had been on the east coast. Anyone else know for sure? JP

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 20 Feb 2006 5:54 pm

This site has a lot of useful information on various types of hardwoods:
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/silvics_manual/volume_2/vol2_Table_of_contents.htm

Poplar is pretty soft, often termed a "softwood". My first decent guitar was a '65 Fender Mustang, made of poplar - I believe Fender used yellow poplar. It dented very easily. Alder is medium-density and porous, but pretty hard. I believe Fender uses red alder, or American alder. Ash is typically higher density and harder than either of these. But, of course, wood varies within a species. If you look on the maps, you'll see that red alder is more of a Northwest US wood, while yellow poplar is prevalent in the Eastern US. I've played good and bad guitars made from each.

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 20 Feb 2006 7:35 pm

Here is Warmoth's lowdown on tone woods, more info on the subject: http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/options/options_bodywoods.cfm

My Strat has a swamp ash body and seems pretty hard, but I think a lot of it has to do with Fender's factory poly finish. I had a Tele with a Warmoth swamp ash body that was finished in thin nitro, and it dented easily. Poplar is used widely for guitars with opaque finishes because it is easy to finish, but there's not much grain, so it's not uncommon to put a veneer of a grainier wood over it for guitars with transparent finishes. I think there is a stigma attached to poplar because it was used on the MIM guitars, and Leo is known for using ash and alder, so people see poplar as an unauthentic compromise. I think Leo used what was available and what worked, be it alder or what ever. There are a lot of high-end electirc guitar builders using poplar. I think tone is probably more effected by pickups, fingerboards, and bridges than the difference between alder and poplar. A lot is the power of perception and suggestion, too. [This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 20 February 2006 at 07:38 PM.]

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 20 Feb 2006 8:16 pm

Strange, then, that the USA Fenders are so much more expensive. It seem that there's a lot of satisfied MIM owners.

Is there anybody here who has a new USA Fender that absolutely blows away a MIM? I own both a Mexican Tele and Precision Bass - I couldn't tell the difference between USA and MIM when I was trying them out in the store, so I decided to save my money.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 20 Feb 2006 11:02 pm

There are a lot of differences in the two. I dont care for MIM at all, it would be very costly to upgrade one to US quality.
Here are some of the differences:

Mexican:
Body
5 to 7-piece alder with poplar and birch veneer. Sunburst models have a maple veneer. Alder cores are sometimes used when poplar/birch are not available.

US:
Body
3-piece alder for solid colors and sunburst
White blond and natural are 2 or 3 piece ash (non-veneered)

Mexican:
Body Finish
Polyester

US:
Body Finish
Polyurethane

Mexican:
Truss Rod
Standard headstock adjust (single rod). Relies on string tension for concave adjustment.

US:
Truss Rod
Bi-flex headstock adjust. Allows for true concave and convex adjustment.

Mexican:
Frets
21 standard frets (small)

US:
Frets
22 highly detailed medium jumbo frets

Mexican:
Machine Heads
Imported cast/sealed

US:
Machine Heads
Fender/Schaller cast/sealed

Mexican:
String Trees
1-standard butterfly

US:
String Trees
1 hardened steel ‘Easy Glider'. Reduces friction thus improving tuning stability.

Mexican:
Neck Attachment
Standard 4-bolt

US:
Neck Attachment
4-bolt ‘Micro-Tilt'. Allows instant string ‘action' adjustments.

Mexican:
Pickups
MIM standard single coils with slug pole-pieces and Ceramic magnet on the bottom of coil. wound/reverse polarity.

US:
Pickups
MIA single coils with Alnico magnets. Middle PU. Mid PU is reverse is reverse wound/reverse Polarity.

Mexican:
Bridge
Imported standard synchronized tremelo. 6 mounting screws Stamped saddles.

US:
Bridge
MIA 2-point synchronized tremelo. Mounting screwshardened stainless steel saddles.

Hope this helps you some.....James

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 20 Feb 2006 11:45 pm

"poplar is just east coast alder"

No way. Poplar and aldar are not similar.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 Feb 2006 11:45 pm

Intuitively I would guess that one-piece bodies would have better resonance - less sustain-eating cross-vibrations - but Eric Johnson specified a two-piece body for his megabuck signature model, and a lot of great music has been made on some really funny guitars. Intuitively, I would personally also look at those cheap stamped-steel bridge inserts on old Strats and say "ee-eew", but try telling that to Johnson, SRV, Hendrix and a few others (actually don't dig them up just for my sake). Two-point tremolos have got to be better than six funny little screws, right? If you just buy enough of the "best" stuff, you don't even need talent or practice anymore, right?

Please?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 21 Feb 2006 4:07 am

the Standard Tele's and Strats, which are the MIM Guitars,

are not the same parts as the USA counterparts..

they don't sound the same, they don't look the same..they don't feel the same ... they are not the same..

one has 21 frets the other 22 frets..that should be a clue.

The MIM Classic 50's is probably the exception as it was developed with a totally different mindset..these are great Telecasters...but it is not to be compared with the Standard MIM Tele'.One sells for $700, the other for $300 or so..

A quick read of the detail descriptions on the www.fender.com product list makes this very clear..

You can add new parts all day long, but they are not the same guitars and were not intended to be.

Pretty soon I imagine we will be comparing the Korean born $149 Tele's to the MIM standards . Someone will be stating.."Same guitar just made in Korea"...

------------------
------------------
TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 21 Feb 2006 5:22 am

Thanks, James. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 21 Feb 2006 5:27 am

Nashville Teles have upgraded alder bodies(2 or 3 piece). I do not like 22 fret guitars, and the microtilt neck is one of the worst ideas ever!
The alder vs poplar issue is interesting. Poplar is a hardwood. Any non-deciduous(leaf bearing)tree is considered a hardwood. There are many people who prefer poplar in blind tests. Leo may have used alder because he was west coast,or not. Just my opinion-JP

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 21 Feb 2006 6:21 am

Your welcome Chris....James

Geoff Brown · Post by **Geoff Brown** » 21 Feb 2006 6:51 am

I like the Fender Japan guitars. The ones that weren't exported to the U.S. Fit, finish, tone...custom shop quality. The minipots are a drawback, but no biggie to replace. A potential drawback (depending on your playing style) is the 7.25" fretboard radius. They all have it, with the exception of signature models and some limited-run guitars. These can be found commonly in the $600-$700 range and are super nice gitfiddles. If the bottom line is cost, the MIM are the way to go. But the difference in quality is like night and day. I'd take one Fender Japan tele or strat for the price of two MIM anytime.