what happened to the music?

Bill Gideon · Post by **Bill Gideon** » 31 Oct 2005 10:25 am

Remember back in the big band era? We actually had a band playing music and they hired a singer to sing with the music. As the big bands dwindled away, and the combo's took over, we lost the music and the singer became the whole band. Listen to the cd's. The only time the band gets to play is when the singer pauses. Then the bang plays a measure or two but is basically quiet while the singer is singing. If you take away the singers voice, all I can hear is the drum and a base. Am I wrong?

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 31 Oct 2005 10:31 am

I remember. My favorites--Les and Larry Elgart. Didn't even need a singer.
Maybe the synthesizer changed things a lot.
Maybe Elvis, I don't know.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 31 Oct 2005 10:47 am

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 13 November 2005 at 11:52 AM.]

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 31 Oct 2005 11:20 am

I watched a guitarist friend of mine respond to a well-meaning lady's query one time, and it went like this:

Q) Are you playing much these days ?
A) No, not much. There's nowhere to play.
The clubs have all folded.
Q) Aww, that's too bad.
A) Not really. (shocked look from lady)
People didn't want it, they didn't
support them, so they're gone.

The lady seemed a little shocked at the forthright nature of his response, but it was only the truth.

-John

Bill Gideon · Post by **Bill Gideon** » 31 Oct 2005 12:40 pm

I watched a DVD the other day of "Asleep at the Wheel" at Billy Bobs, and you could actually hear the band play while Ray sang. You could acutally hear Jim Murphy playing backup, and they had a sound man too. How novel.

Burr Oxley · Post by **Burr Oxley** » 31 Oct 2005 6:27 pm

The sax section of the Les & Larry Elgart band was GREAT! Other great sax sections, IMO, were Glenn Miller's and Billy Vaughn's "Twin Sax" sound!

With great instrumental music, who NEEDS vocals?

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 31 Oct 2005 6:41 pm

The music doesn't have big boobs or great legs to look at, nor does it wear a cowboy hat and a tight fitting muscle T shirt...

THAT is what has taken the place of music in much of todays pop culture. The look and performance of the vocal ""artist"" has become the determing factor.. Instrumentation?? secondary...
good players are a dime a dozen,, a commodity... Good Looks and sex appeal wins the day,all day,every day...

Musical virtuosity is admirable, but these days not always marketable... bob

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 31 Oct 2005 9:08 pm

Burr your right Most of the vocals today sure get in the way some great picking. 98% of my music collection is minus vocals.The only vocal artist I can stand listening to for a long time is Dale Watson,and old Blue Eyes,Yes thats a strange combination but it works for me.

Burr Oxley · Post by **Burr Oxley** » 1 Nov 2005 6:01 pm

Carlucci, I see that you're from Candor, NY. And that was most assuredly a CANDID statement!

Yeah, in the absence of good melody and instrumentalists or truly talented singers, I guess T&A or Beefcake is all that attracts "listeners" to performances.

Burr Oxley · Post by **Burr Oxley** » 1 Nov 2005 6:05 pm

Charles, probably 75-80% of my music collection is instrumentals, too. Stupid lyrics or crappy vocal performances have certainly ruined a lot of fine instrumental performances.

Unfortunately, Mr. Carlucci above has probably hit the nail right on the head about Babes and Studs substituting for real talent on stage.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 1 Nov 2005 7:45 pm

Your right ,Because Patsy Cline did'nt look like a play boy model,she would not have had chance today.I saw a little lady a few months ago on the opry,She was absolutely beautiful,but could not carry a tune if you wrapped it around her neck.What does that say about the MU-SICK business today???

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 1 Nov 2005 10:54 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Bob Carlucci wrote:

Good Looks and sex appeal wins the day, all day, every day...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eeerrrrr; Bob, could this be why steel guitarists are not so popular any more?

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 2 Nov 2005 3:46 am

I personally think that the vast majority of Americans are unable to mentally process instrumental solos because their attention span for music has been fried by their television. If you ever sit down and consciously listen to what's coming out of the box, you will hear dozens, even hundreds of tiny musical fragments in any given hour - ads for a station's own news shows play a tiny snippet of the theme, 2-second excerpts of theme songs from other shows are intended to tease you into watching them, pounding fuzz guitars sell big SUV's, soul music means BBQ ribs (?), sitars mean the 60's, and on and on. Some commercials can each have 4 or 5 shreds of music. The very idea that you could sit still for an entire minute and listen to a single instrument, identify a melodic theme and variations, and perceive a pattern moving through a scale must seem bizarre to someone entirely raised on the use of music as a signifier.

Even entire genres are now social statements rather than content oriented; you are a "jazz person" or a "country/NASCAR/truck person" or a "punk" or a "retro-hippy." Big and Rich could write a song about tofu and aardvarks and as long as the video showed Men, in Trucks, with Hats, Roping Steers, it would be a big hit. Who even needs music anymore, besides the whiny musicians?

(cue in computer-beep music)
Leading scientists recently announced an amazing research finding: they have discovered that fully 50% of the people in the world have an IQ less than 100! Leading analysts were unable to interpret this finding, as they were all out to lunch.
(cue in drooly "blues" motif; fade....)

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Nov 2005 4:26 am

Interesting topic, especially David Mason's last statement.

I agree with Mr. Mason. But something interesting has happened recently in the world of the redneck sports like NASCAR and fishing. A few years back, the background music for fishing shows was predominantly low volume bluegrass or acoustic country, reflecting the "down home - ness" of the sport. Obviously the producers of these shows, especially B.A.S.S./ESPN, have taken to upping the excitement level of a traditionally boring thing to watch by having fast rock guitar-based music as background sounds for catching a bass.

Used to be a ballcap was worn by fisherman using the visor to keep the sun out of their eyes. Now the ballcap is worn backwards, to show the viewers how "contemporary" the fisherman is. Also to prominantly show the logo of the corporate sponsor of the fisherman.

Oh well... (audible sigh)

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 2 Nov 2005 6:18 am

I personally think that the vast majority of Americans are unable to mentally process instrumental solos because their attention span for music has been fried by their television.

Try getting someone to listen to Debussy.
Fuggedaboutit.[This message was edited by Charlie McDonald on 02 November 2005 at 06:18 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 2 Nov 2005 9:19 am

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 02 November 2005 at 09:42 AM.]

Kirk Hamre · Post by **Kirk Hamre** » 2 Nov 2005 5:37 pm

Dave Mason:
"Big and Rich could write a song about tofu and aardvarks and as long as the video showed Men, in Trucks, with Hats, Roping Steers, it would be a big hit. Who even needs music anymore, besides the whiny musicians?"

Dave,
Sadly, you hit the nail straight on the head...It's all about the video...has been since MTV went on the air in 1982. The first time I saw MTV I was 18 years old and I said "oh no, this is the beginning of the end for real music", and sure enough I was sadly correct. The whole video-skit concept is a troubling reflection of how far in the toilet the level of musical intellect has fallen in this country. You have to dig deep and look far today to find real musicians, playing real instruments, and real music.
The modern video-skit and can even destroy a great song. You see the video, then you kind of remember the song, and the song takes your thoughts right back to your memory of the ridiculous video. Before modern videos, the song would let you create your own image, in your own mind, with your own imagination. Personal, private, and beautiful, and not polluted with the image of the video. Remember when we used to say "I can't get that song out of my head"?...well now it's "I can't get that ridiculous video out of my head".

Kirk Hamre · Post by **Kirk Hamre** » 2 Nov 2005 6:02 pm

Dave Mason:
[This message was edited by Kirk Hamre on 02 November 2005 at 06:26 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 2 Nov 2005 6:11 pm

Kirk posted what I was going to add too. It's about the video. Videos are a lot like TV and movies in the sense that you don't find ugly or even average-looking people in them anymore. You're not young and don't look like model, you're out. That's why Bob Carlucci's right about the T&A/Beefcake thing. It's the video that people see, and that's what the music is tailored for, and that's why you'll continue to see Shania and her type but not too likely going to see any more Patsy Clines, even if one were to be found, unless she agreed to lose weight, cosmetic surgery etc. and if she's over 30, forget it.

Kirk Hamre · Post by **Kirk Hamre** » 2 Nov 2005 6:20 pm

Sorry for the double post.
Kirk

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 2 Nov 2005 8:22 pm

I believe Dave Mason is correct - it's about imaging. I'm afraid that it goes waaay past music. A large portion of people in this society are absolutely obsessed with their image of themselves. People listen to styles of music, drive types of vehicle, wear types of clothes, plays types of guitars, use types of flashy cell phones, wear types of hats and sneakers, eat & drink in types of restaurants and bars - ad infinitum, ad nauseum - that reflect onto themselves the image they want to create of themselves.

One may ask why so many people are obsessive in this way. I think it's because they are insecure and need an identity outside the content of their lives, and also simply because they can. Overall, this is really a very affluent society, and the idle body and mind simply latch onto "stuff" like this. This is also part of the feelgood "self esteem" movement. The favorite catch-phrase is "I deserve this". The thought of working towards something (with its attendant frustration and failure) simply doesn't occur to a large segment of the population. This is why things are so fickle. With a flip of the mental switch - voila, a new image. The audio part of this is but a small piece - visual is so much more stimulating for most people.

This type of thing has always been there, but what I think has changed is the level of entitlement people feel, and also the level of flashy technology of all types easily available these days.

I have always felt that the best art came out of very difficult times. I guess that just reflects my artistic values. I find things today very superficial. This is because a lot of people are in ostrich mode - not facing the real issues of life and death. The society is obsessively youth-oriented and narcissistic. The thing is, people eventually will have to face these issues - there is hope, I believe.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 3 Nov 2005 5:01 am

I have always felt that the best art came out of very difficult times.

Beethoven's life story. Life and death, and transfiguration, were issues. And his music has legs.
A single used to be a 45'. Now it's a video. It seems it's no longer the song, it's the artist. And I use the term loosely.

Vern Wall · Post by **Vern Wall** » 3 Nov 2005 5:51 pm

It's the Sesame Street Effect, closely related to the Monty Python Effect. Pixelated pictures, razzmatazz audio, jarring cuts and changes in topic, "and now for something completely different", anything to keep the attention for a moment but no more than a moment. It reaches a point where the technician turns the volume up on the music while the singer takes a breath because the audience can't pay attention that long. Storytellers are unknown because nobody can pay attention for longer than about three sentences.