Death of the Steel and Telecaster???

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 10 Oct 2005 12:49 pm

Hello,

I played a Support our Troops show at the Nissan Pavilion Sidestage in Bristow, VA on Saturday night. 65 degrees and raining, our 20 minute sets between the headliners in the pavilion were cut short because some "country" artists have a lot to say I guess. But what really stunned me is that there were no teles and other than Randy Sorrell and I, no steel players in the bands. Keith Anderson, Montgomery Gentry, two other artists on the main stage, Lucy something or other, virtually no steel, no fiddle, no teles. I tell you I don't get this brand of steel-fiddle-tele-less country music with Les Pauls and high gain solos.

That said, it was a treat to hear Randy play, how he fit his playing in there with a keyboard, two Gibsons and an acoustic I do not know.

I have never seen so many cowboy hats in all my life!!

Has anyone else observed the disappearance of our beloved instruments with dismay??

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 10 Oct 2005 12:58 pm

No need to worry, trends come and go. It's my experience that as long as I stick to what I do best, I'm 'trendy' every 10-15th year or so...

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 10 Oct 2005 1:04 pm

Montgomery Gentry didn't bring any vocals to the show, either, but that didn't stop them from yelling and prancing around.

I agree with Steinar, it's cyclical. There was a lot of sappy strings and lack of twang in 70's country, too.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 10 Oct 2005 1:08 pm

Gerald, you are correct. CMT has turned country music into BLUES with bands that use Les Pauls and B3 organs. Its NOT country. It takes alot more talent in my opinion to play a Tele or a pedal steel. Country/Rock has now been purposely morfed into Blues/Rock. Its purposeful culture genocide against country music.<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 10 October 2005 at 02:08 PM.]</p></FONT>

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Oct 2005 2:25 pm

I disagree, Kevin. Today's "country" music is no more blues than it is country. It's mostly what we used to call southern rock.

Real blues has a dynamic range that's missing in this high voltage crap that's being forced on radio junkies. If there's a musical connection between BB King and Mongomery Gentry, I can't hear it.

Let's not give blues a bad name here!

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 10 Oct 2005 2:44 pm

Gerald, A cowboy hat,a western duster,and twirling a mike stand[like a sixteen year old cheer leader at a highschool football game]don't make you a country singer,at least the over driven Les Pauls help cover up Mont.,Gentry's vocals.But they and there peers such as Chesney,Big and Rich,and Cowboy Troy fit perfect on G.A.C.[Great American Crap]and C.M.T.[Certified Mutilated Trash.]But an imbecile record producer told Dale Watson [You are too country for country]that is one of the most ludicrous statements I have ever heard!!!!Don Rich and Mooney,We need guys like you real bad.These new clowns would not qualify to be your roadies.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 10 Oct 2005 2:55 pm

There's no lack of good country out there, you just gotta look for it.

CD's I have purchased in the last few weeks and posted in regards to on other threads:

The new Jon Randall and the new Patty Loveless. I know, you're talking about a live gig.

At any rate, both albums have a lot of steel, a lot of dobro, some lap steel, and no lack of fiddle.

The Loveless album has one of the greatest Tele players of all, Albert Lee, on almost every track.

Montgomery Gentry-those guys make me cringe.

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Mark

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 10 Oct 2005 3:04 pm

As far as the Les Pauls,In the 70s and 80s I believe twanger guys like Jerry Reed, Steve Wariner,Albert Lee,Danny Gatton, and alot of others were seen sporting Les Pauls in their performances. ( They are great guitars)Its definnetly a trend thing I would say.( I make no claims, as to who is country or who isnt)( doesnt really matter). Bob

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 10 Oct 2005 3:43 pm

Bob I kind of disagree about comparing this crap today with Southern Rock.I played a lot of S.R.over about twenty five years,on both guitar and steel[yes steel blends in good with S.R.]I never heard the Allmons,Lynyrd Skynyrd,Charlie Daniels,Wet Willie,etc,etc,NEVER sounded like this --it today.They all played a similer style,[Southern Rock]But they all had an original sound of their own. You knew who you were listening to ,with out having to read liner notes.I would compare this so called country today to maybe 70's pop rock,only the new crowd can't even get close to say the [Eagles].I really don't know what you could compare this stuff to.There's really never been anything bad enough to compare it to.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 10 Oct 2005 5:42 pm

This crap ain't blues, country,southern rock, or even a good hybrid... Its glitzy, trashy glam/pop with a cowboy hat on... ...pure trash... bob

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Oct 2005 7:32 pm

So, what are you guys saying? You don't like modern country music? I'm shocked, shocked!

Sadly, I can't argue.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 10 Oct 2005 7:32 pm

I try not to stereotype particular models of guitars with particular genres of music. The Telecaster is also one of the legendary workhorses of rock - for example, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck, Pete Townshend, and David Gilmour all played Teles at some point in their careers. This is why I occasionally rant over the Tele's role in country music. It's not the guitar, but who is playing what on it that makes it rock or country or whatever.

If there is a death of steel in country music, maybe it can be reborn in other kinds of music. The death of steel in country music need not mean the death of steel period.

Pat Carlson · Post by **Pat Carlson** » 10 Oct 2005 7:59 pm

What Bob Carlucci said is correct!

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 10 Oct 2005 8:03 pm

...there have been just as many country hits with 335s as Teles...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 11 Oct 2005 12:48 am

Leslie-good point about it being the player.

My wife and I saw one of my favorite guitarists, Mark Knopfler (and one of the best in the world), a couple of months ago in Berkeley.

Knopfler, guitar-wise, is most identified with his red Strat. Come to find out that on some of the songs on his latest album, "Shangri-La" he plays a beautiful new red sunburst Les Paul, because he used it on the same songs in concert. When I first got the cd I remember thinking, "that's a really different tone he got out of that Strat."

For that matter, he also played a Tele on a few songs at the concert.

Didn't matter which guitar he played-in his hands they all sounded great!

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Mark

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Oct 2005 2:56 am

seeing Keeny Cheesy with a Les Paul does nothing for me..PUKE..

Seeing M+G with whatever they carry/play is a farse...

Seeing even a "novice" with a Tele'..well thats the real deal..

Tele's have survived more than half a century now..

it's gonna take a bit more than Kenny Cheesy and M+G to pry them out of our hands.

and do keep in mind, Gibson is offering nice incentives for these so called top touring acts to use them on Tour and on TV spots..

My Tele's and my Steel are not dead..

I'm pretty certain they will survive me !

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 11 Oct 2005 3:22 am

Mark....You got that right!

I thought Montgomery Gentry had a steel player on the road. "Something To Be Proud Of" climbed #1 yesterday. I enjoy the steel on that record.

To say Death of the Steel and Telecaster may not be a fair analogy of new country. It just happened to be so at the package show you attended.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 11 Oct 2005 3:26 am

When I try to listen to modern rock (I don't get too far) I hear a strong Led Zeppelin influence - and even though Page played and recorded with a Telecaster a lot - "Stairway" solo, anyone? - he's associated in the minds of people with the Les Paul. When I force myself to listen to modern country (I get even less far), I do hear a Duane Allman influence, only as far as the choice of slide guitar to play bits. What was the proportion of slide guitar to steel guitar on country radio songs in 1970? 1980? 1990? Duane Allman played a Les Paul.

A larger issue to me overall is the death of instrumental solos. With the rare exception of people like Brad Paisley, who has told the record company that if they want his pretty face they have to let him play his guitar, there just aren't any solos on the radio/TV anymore. I would much rather hear a 16 bar solo from one guitar, steel or fiddle, but it's an ironclad cliche now to have those instruments trade licks with the b@njo and h@rmonica - that's to let us peons know it's a "country" song. Instruments are treated as signifiers or sample-generating devices, and in that context I suppose producers are telling players which ones to pose with so as to affect the "message" and image they're trying to project.

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 11 Oct 2005 3:31 am

I usually stay out of these discussions but I'm about as country as dirt. I'm a hugh fan of Hag, Ray Price, E.T., Vern Gosden, you get the picture. I play steel, dobro, a very little piano, mandolin, etc, in other words I'm country. I play a Les Paul Recording guitar, no distortion, I did not realize that keeps me from being country.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Oct 2005 3:35 am

Howard..it doesn't..

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 11 Oct 2005 3:40 am

The real country music these days, from what I am seeing, is in the Americana market. Steve Earle, the Duhks, Bastard Sons of Johnny Cash, Buddy and Julie Miller, Emmylou Harris... lots of great music, Telecasters or no. What is being marketed as country these days isn't even close. But it is still out there- you gotta look for it, though. Check out Fred Eaglesmith some time, or Jim Lauderdale.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 11 Oct 2005 3:52 am

Steve Earle?

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 11 Oct 2005 7:42 am

Good post Keith-my sentiments exactly.

Yes-Steve Earle-he's got a lot of country in him, and bluegrass.

And as a songwriter-his stuff is often perfect for a true country singer. I think it's called "My Old Friend The Blues" that he wrote, which is on the new Patty Loveless album I mentioned erlier.

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Mark

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 11 Oct 2005 8:00 am

I was surprised to find some of the preeminent jazz guitarists of this district (Roddy Elias, Ed Bickert) are using Telecasters now, sometimes with Evans amps.
-John

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www.ottawajazz.com

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 11 Oct 2005 8:11 am

Bill Frisell often plays a Tele these days.

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Mark