What do you say....

Chuck Cusimano · From: Weatherford, Texas, USA

What do you say if someone sends you their musical project that you know that ten years from now, they would be embarrassed to hear?

I recieved such a project the other day, and I'm hoping the person does not ask me what I think about the pickin'. I have always maintained to others to tell the truth, and don't hold nothing back, when it comes to them critiquing my music, and I'm hoping I would be big enough to accept their oppinion.
On the other hand, I have always said for a person to be truthfull with the asker, about their material, but I would have such a hard time telling this person to just keep playing, and don't record for another ten years. Have I reached anyone with this delima? I expect I will recieve a phone call from this person as soon as they figure I've had time to listen to the project. How can I soften the blow? This is a good friend, and a very fine person, that frankly, I didn't know they were playing music at all. Maybe I'm worried for nothing, but I feel that if I really want to help this person, I need to be truthful. I could say "You keep working at it, and it will all come together one of these days." I could say, "Don't quit your day job." I appreciate them wanting to let me know what they are doing musicaly, but it's going to be awkward if they ask me what I think of their playing.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I, being known to be "brutally honest", would simply say..."If this your first effort?" That would elicit a counter remark, and based on the tone of that remark, I'd either say..."It needs a lot of work", or "Well, what do you think of it???"

We draw a fine line between encouraging latent ability, or smashing a fragile ego. As my old man might say..."Tell the truth, or just keep quiet, but never lie."

If he'd ask me, I'd probably tell him as nice as I could that it has "possibilities", but needs a ton of work.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

The opry manager told Elvis to go back to his day gig,the rest is history.If this was a real good friend of mine I think Iwould be a little more diplomatic and tell him he needed practice more and work harder and someday it would come together.You would'nt be lieing to him,because if he takes your advice he will get better,and you will still be friends.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

I am brutally honest if someone asks me for an opinion. I find that most amateur recordings just flat out stink. We put out our first CD last March to rave local reviews and to me it is still only just acceptable according to my standards. It was recorded in a top studio here by an internationally famous rock band. We've sold hundreds of them. I'm still not satified.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

People often ask me such things, especially on guitar and also 'technical things', since I am a college teacher of 'technical things'. I guess there's no algorithm for constructing an answer, but for me, it depends on how well I know them and how much 'brutal honesty' I think they can handle.

I always want to encourage people to keep playing, but don't want to send the wrong message that poor playing is good - this can do as much damage as being too tough. I try to find out how long they've been playing, how much time they practice, and so on. As long as someone is not extremely arrogant about their abilities, I am always gentle in criticism, and try to point out both good and bad aspects. But I really believe that if someone asks for honest criticism, I should not lie to them just to improve their 'self esteem'. IMO, the 'Self Esteem Movement' has practically destroyed our schools. Don't get me going.

Pat Burns · From: Branchville, N.J. USA

You could send the material to Kevin and let him critique it first. Then when your friend asks what you think, you can tell him the truth and it will sound like high praise.

..Seriously, as a person who can identify more with the critiquee than with the critiquor, I vote for the Dave Mudgett approach. It covers all the bases.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

Les Anderson · From: The Great White North

Anyone who is not open or cannot accept a honest evaluation from their peers, will never improve to level of their peers.

This dude in question wants to do a few practices with the band leader of our band. He wouldn't last beyond his first mistake or "That's not going to do it" remark.

I love nothing more than to have someone who can play better than I stop me in mid stream and push me to do it right or better.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Truth is relative, and never a constant.
There are many aspects to truthfulness.

So I just say 'Go for it.' One has to try their ideas; if 'helpful' criticism deters that, creative desire can be lost.
Ten years from now, the person can judge for himself.

Why do we fear embarassment? I'm sure Charles Ives detractors were the ones who ended up embarassed.
If I fear embarassment, I wouldn't try something, and would lose the opportunity to see if it stinks.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I think this is much like child-rearing: you wouldn't want to crush the poor kid and turn him away from music, so I think the general approach is to find some aspect of the recording that can be complimented. Perhaps his intonation ("You've got pretty good intonation, which is really unusual, considering how short you've been playing") or his tone "nice tone; what guitar do you use again?", or how the steel is mixed in well with the backing instruments, etc. Sometimes that's all a person is looking for: a little pat on the back. They might not be asking for your brutal honesty, or your "full and complete answer". If they are, they'll ask you for more. And if they do, that'll create an opportunity for constructive criticism, e.g., "You could try working some more on your right hand blocking: hey, I've got a Joe Wright book you could borrow..." or "I could show you some exercises to improve your intonation so you can really nail those high passages..." In general, I'd say if you're going to point out a weakness, try to offer him a way to work on and improve it.

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

If you could find threads of similarity between the thing your friend sent you and chord progressions, melodies or styles of recorded artists you could make him a tape that show the similarities. I remember being greatly encouraged when I realized that the basic licks to songs like "Whipping Post" and "Gimme Shelter" were really quite simple patterns obviously generated by people with approximately the same number of fingers and brain cells as myself.

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

In the engineering design world we call this situation the "How Do You Tell A Mother She Has An Ugly Baby?" syndrome.

Charles Davidson · From: Phenix City Alabama, USA

I agree with some of what Jim said. If this person is doing something right,compliment him on this,THEN point out his weakness and encourage him to work harder on it.I get a lot of satisfaction helping someone that really appreciates it and has a humble attitude. On the other side of the coin,If I come upon an arrogant S.O.B. that thinks he knows every thing[and knows nothing]I won't waste five seconds of my time with this person.I remember I was working with a band that played a club every weekend,this Elvis impersonator[that really,sucked,sucked,sucked]He did'nt ask if he could set in,he DEMANDED to.The bass player took him aside and told him,son the only thing I hate more than Elvis,is a pi-- pore Elvis impersonator. If he would had a better attitude,and asked to set in instead of demanding it,he would'nt have been totally embarressed.

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

You have to be constructive, not"brutally honest". Just about everybody sucks compared to someone else.

Two opinions I remember: 1. My JC music teacher telling me about some crap-song that I wrote "Jim, it has a Stravinski sort of sound to it," and(2) more recently, Dave Black,extreme local guitar player saying about a somewhat better song,"Jim, it has some nice impressionistic chords." Both made my day!

Then there's my steel instructor,introducing me to Ron Lashley, saying" Jim is a really fine local guitarist with a great group, and ,well, not that great a steel player!" To which I replied" I'd be a much better steel player if I could just find a decent teacher!"

Once again, be constructive, not brutal, unless he says to be brutal. JimP

[This message was edited by Jim Peters on 21 September 2005 at 05:32 AM.]

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

I heard someone say about a not-so-beautiful baby: "Now that's a baby!"

"Now that's a piece of work, Charles Ives."

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

You could say something like "YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING GOING TO BE A BIG STAR, THE ONLY THING HOLDING YOU BACK IS YOUR PICKING AND SINGING".........JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Barry Blackwood · Posted 21 Sep 2005 3:59 pm

To paraphrase that last statement, "You don't play too good, but you sure get a ****ty tone ...."

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

James Cann · From: Phoenix, AZ

And tell me we aren't hearing and seeing enough "pretty-faced but talentless stars" in country music today!

Keith Cordell · From: San Diego

After spending a few years producing punk rock acts, a number of years back I took my surf instrumental band into the studio and recorded an EP. I sent a copy of it to a respected friend in the industry who shortly returned it to me with about 40 lines on legal pad of specific improvements that I needed to consider "when I went back and recorded it properly". At first I was a bit taken aback, then I got someone who had a track record with instrumental music to produce the songs for us. I still am thankful that my friend stopped me from releasing that turkey to ANY of the public- I am sure it was time consuming for him to spend the effort to write all he wrote, but it saved us a lot of embarrassment.

Kenny Burford · From: Independence, Missouri USA

Ok Chuck, I haven't even sent you the song yet and already you are pickin' on me. Lie to me, tell how great my song or music is and that for a mere $5000.00 you can do a four song session on me in Nashville, using a top Nashville session band. Do the session, take the $5,000.00 and 10 or 15 years down the road I can tell all my friends that my songs were great I just couldn't get hooked up with a major label.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

this is such a real world situation..you could make a Reality TV show out of this...

a tad long..but this just happened a few days ago..

Last week my long time friend from Ct called me and asked me to lay a Steel track on one of his tunes. He had been contacted by some internet song website to make a Country version of one of his songs. SO he asked if I would lay a Steel track on his tune. You know, make it Country by adding a Steel.

Generally his tunes are very heavy left hand bouncing on the Keyboard, and he is not a Keyboard player. And then he plays Acoustic Guitar, aka James Taylor, and then a Fuzzed out Guitar solo..oh and also some synth strings..if you can believe that...

He sent me the track and ..low and behold..it was exactaly like I thought it would be..as mentioned above. But now there was a nice gal singing somewhere in between all that other stuff..and somewhere in there was a fairly nice song too. Evidently someone heard the track and actually head a song in there as well.

Ok, time for reality...I sent Gary a note back and told him it was a great song, lots of possibilities and that the vocalist was excellent. I started positive.

then I told him what I thought the tune needed from a Country Boy perspective.

Here's what I told him..

I started by telling him that as he knows, I have been a Country Boy forever..and this is my take on his project.

The song was very good overall, the singer was very good..

but....

There's no place for a Steel on the track as it is. This is not a Country track...

The keyboard was ok for the first verse, but after that was just killing the singer and the song..I told him to open it up, play whole tones, half tones, sus chords, two chords etc..tie his left hand behind his back...

I told him to delete the strings

Delete the Fuzz Guitar

Delete the James Taylor AC Guitar

Send me a track with just the Bass, Drums very simple open piano and the singer.

I also told him to have the singer listen to the new track and perhaps sing it again, as now she may sing it totally diferently without all the extra Instruments ( I didn't say clutter)

I told him I would play Steel and or Tele'/335 on the track ..and he could choose the portions he liked .

I told him that the formula for success is OPEN, no clutter, room for the singer to breath..room for Instruments to breath...

and that I didn't invent this formula ....

I recall a produce telling me once about laying tracks...

"Make a track with nothing on it..it'll be great "....

I sent Gary a short demo track of a very very open tune we are working on here at the house with the band...AC Guitar, Tele', 335 solo, Steel, vocals, bass /drums..Keith Urbans Memories of us. A very open track...This is going to be the lead track of our bands upcoming Demo CD..

Gary replied back..

"uhh..my track is not like yours"....

he told me he was gonna work on his tune a bit and he would get back to me...

I reminded him that his tune was excellent and that he just needed to put the song and vocal out front....

I kept it very positive...

I think many times when writers like my friend Gary, who write then record all of there own tracks without any outside comments or suggestions, FAIL.

Gary has written probably 500 songs..I bet he wrote some great songs but you couldn't hear them thru the music.

Let see what happens going forward...

this is really a tuff place to be for a friend..
but in this instance , he called me....

Bob Martin · From: Madison Tn

Hi Chuck, I have listened to a lot of music over the last several years and even if you have to listen to it over a few times there is always something you can find to say nice about the music if you want to.

Things like I loved the material selection, or man thats not bad at all for your first attempt just think how good you will get in 10 yrs. No one ever gives you music expecting you to look for the bad things they already know their short comings. They mainly want you to tell them the things that were good about their project and if you look hard enough you will find at least one thing nice to say to your friend.

I have often told friends a few words of encouragement when asked for my opinion even on a poor project but I believe if you look hard enough you can find something good about all music.

Maybe even say wow it's amazing what you have accompolished in such a short time or where did you get the skills to even record your project or maybe did anyone in your family play music or have you had to learn it all on your own. I'm sure you could find something to make him work harder and learn to be a better player.

Now on the other hand if you think he stinks and you tell him so he might quit playing and miss out on a whole lifetime of the joy of playing music. Who knows he may never be good enough to play out but just think of how much fun he can have over the course of his life just playing for himself.

I don't think you would want to cheat him out of that would you? How many pickers here on the forum just play at home for themselves and never get good enough to play a gig but I'll tell you one thing for sure they can have just as much fun picking on that level as you might have on a professional level. Just a few things to consider when trying to help your friend :-)

Bob

Chuck Cusimano · From: Weatherford, Texas, USA

I appreciate all the great suggestions, and all the in-put. I have not heard from the friend, so I have not made any big mistakes as to critiquing their work. OF course, I would never say anything to crush the efforts of anyone learning to play. I actually do have some tact as far as being encouraging to a beginer. I have taught guitar for many years, and I realize the importance of giving CONSTRUCTIVE criticisum, while giving hope, and inspiration to someone just starting out. I will set down and write a note to the person I'm speaking of, and thank them for thinking of me, and sending a copy of the project, and yes, I can truthfully tell them that the tone is very clean, and I like the sound of their guitar. I would never do anything to dash the hopes of a new comer to the guitar world, or steel guitar world. If anybody would like to purchase a copy, I'll ask how much they are.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

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