Pedals on a Harp

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 12 Feb 2005 2:07 pm

I found this page, which might interest some. The entire site is fascinating, but the discussion of the harp really caught my attention.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 12 Feb 2005 3:03 pm

Very Interesting.

I'm wondering if they still use catgut strings and how much the full size babies are going for.

Haven't seen one up close for a while.

Have they been used in Country Music?

Anybody remember the intro of Spade Cooley's version of Steel Guitar Rag?

That's the one.

Hmm.

Wonder if a guy could get a couple go go dancers, hook one up to a Boss Tone, and make the cover of Rolling Stone..

Naaww.

EJL

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 12 Feb 2005 5:24 pm

I became interested in the Italian harp back in the 40's, and even took a few lessons in Louisville, KY. I finally quit when the teacher would no longer let me hang around her house to practice. In order to continue, I would have had to buy one. At that time about the only place you could find one was Lyon and Healey in Chicago. The cheapest one they had was $4,200.00 -- nearly a year's salary for me at that time.

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Recluse · Post by **Recluse** » 13 Feb 2005 4:19 pm

FYI http://www.lyonhealy.com/prod.html

$9900 to $43.000

only 83 lbs without case
Steve Bailey

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 13 Feb 2005 4:44 pm

I have always been fascinated with the harp. Last year I attended a Staff concert at the University of Illinois that featured an assistant professor of harp named Ann Yeung. It was an incredible concert and she is an excellent harpist. I just went to a doctoral recital at the U of I a few days ago and heard a harpist named Jing-I Jang. She studies under Ann Yeung and she too gave a fantastic performance. I do not know a lot about classical music but I am starting to broaden my horizons. I think that my interest in the harp might have something to do with the fact that it has pedals. I wonder when they will start adding knee levers.

Billy Johnson · Post by **Billy Johnson** » 13 Feb 2005 5:58 pm

Bob Watson, you do know that you just opened up a can of worms over at the harp forum, don't you??

Enjoyed our visit.
Billy

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Feb 2005 1:47 am

That $43,000.00 puppy sure is purty.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400
[This message was edited by Richard Sinkler on 14 February 2005 at 01:50 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 14 Feb 2005 7:28 am

I sometimes play pedal steel and Dobro in a group that includes the harpist Ellen Tepper (www.ellentepper.com). Pedal steel and harp sound really good together on ballads. Although she has pedal harps, she usually brings a smaller lever harp. These operate on the same principle.

The harp has eight strings to the octave, which are colored for visual identification. At the top of each string is a lever with click stops that can raise a half-tone or a whole-tone (pedal harps do this with pedals at the bottom). The harp is tuned to Cb open. The idea is to have the levers set at the middle stop, so that all the strings play a C scale. With a pedal harp, one can get accidentals while playing by raising or lowering a string a half-step. With the lever harp, one has to reach up with one hand and flip the lever, which is not possible for fast playing, but can be done in slow playing. For playing in keys other than C, one flips the appropriate levers to flat or sharp the appropriate notes for the key. So although the harp is theoretically a diatonic chromatic instrument, in practice it is often only a seven note instrument, like a harmonica.

Harps make a lot of use of glissandos. I asked Ellen if they ever sustain the pedal changes. She said, yes there is an uncommon technique called the pedal gliss. So they were doing what we do centuries ago on pedal harps.

Once, when Ellen brought a pedal harp, we had a good time looking up the skirts of our respective instruments to see how they work.

I'm sure there are some traditionalists who use the old gut strings, but modern players use nylon strings. There are also wire-stringed harps. They have a great sound, but are hard on the fingers. You don't want to know how much a set of strings costs.

Oh, yeah, harps are mostly tuned ET, for the same reasons as pianos. I don't know if they stretch-tune. I have never noticed a clash between her ET harp and my JI pedal steel. I think it helps that the harp (like the piano) doesn't have much sustain, so there is little chance for the overtones to clash with JI instruments.

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 14 Feb 2005 12:15 pm

Bob, great topic! Dave, thanks for sharing your experiences of actually gigging with a harpist with us. Did you get to sit behind it and take it for a test drive? There used to be an excellent harpist in Nashville named Lloyd Lindroth who played at the Opryland Hotel up in the balconey overlooking the atrium. He played a variety of music and I always enjoyed hearing him. Unfortunately he isn't with us anymore. I don't really intend on picking up a new instrument but I have always wanted to sit behind a harp and see what its like. I figure playing a glissando must be like mashing the A and B pedals on an E9. Here's an interestinglink: http://www.harplandmusic.com/llindroth2.html

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 14 Feb 2005 12:25 pm

I always liked harps...but at those prices, I'm glad it never went any further than that.

Wonder why Yamaha or someone hasn't come up with a less expensive, lighter and more portable version? Not enough demand maybe. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 14 February 2005 at 02:13 PM.]

Mark Ardito · Post by **Mark Ardito** » 14 Feb 2005 12:44 pm

On public television in Chicago there is a show called "Wild Chicago" and they visited the Lyon-Healy factory in Chicago to show how a harp was made. It was crazy! The show aired over 5 years ago, but I do remember them saying that it was a very long process and took over 4 months to make 1 harp! They also said they had over 250 moving parts on the instrument!

Makes my S10 3+4 look like a baby instrument!

Mark

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 14 Feb 2005 1:12 pm

Moving parts in a typical D-10, 8+5:
<pre> 40 - two-part changer fingers (20 fingers)
20 - roller nuts
20 - tuning machines
8 - pedals
8 - pedal rods
5 - knee levers
13 - cross shafts
30 - bell cranks
30 - pull rods
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174 moving parts </pre>Okay, so it's not 250, but it's close.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 14 Feb 2005 1:49 pm

b0b, you forgot that each tuner has 3 moving parts. And if you count the return springs, the hex tuners for the pedals and knees, and a few more small parts, I think pedal steel is well past 250 moving parts. A big factor in the harp cost is that they are very odd shaped things made mostly of wood (never seen a formica one). They have an acoustic sound box in the base that generates the volume and tone, which is affected greatly by the craftsmanship. As for the mechanism, each pedal pulls the same note in each octave. Most harps have about 6 octaves, so that's 6 raises per pedal, seven pedals. Big concert harps that play with orchestras are all acoustic. Ellen has a transducer on the sound box, and when she plays through a good keyboard amp, she gets a nice full sound that can compete with electric instruments.

I have tried playing one of her harps. With the color coded strings it is possible to immediately begin to pick out some simple stuff. With that sound box right up next to your chest, you can feel the sound, and it is beautiful - like you're already in heaven. But to play with both hands at once, and to pick out intricate melodies and simultaneous harmony takes at least as much practice and skill as playing piano. For some reason most harpists are women. But men have an advantage because of their bigger stronger hands (but maybe we're clumsier).

Mark Ardito · Post by **Mark Ardito** » 17 Feb 2005 12:24 pm

Oh yeah...I remembered one more thing from this show of the tour of the Lyon-Healy factory. All moving parts have to work absolutely quiet. When I play my S10 Sho~Bud it is pretty loud and clanky when you step on the pedals. These harps have to work with no noise coming from the machinery. Unreal!

Mark

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[This message was edited by Mark Ardito on 17 February 2005 at 12:24 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Feb 2005 3:53 pm

I recently picked up this CD by Jung Kwok. She's an amazing harpist, and the selection of material is really nice. I especially like her Verdi medley.

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 18 Feb 2005 6:35 pm

Another interesting site...

BF
http://www.harpspectrum.org/pedal/wooster.shtml