The Steel Guitar Forum

We backed up for an amateur night at the local Legion on the weekend and I was reminded once again of how challenging that can be. Every time we agree to do one of these gigs I find the hardest part is dealing with performers who have no sense of musical measure. Is there such a thing as 'Rhythmic Dyslexia'? I noticed Saturday night that at least three of the singers were actually pretty much on key and even had quite pleasant voices. But they're completely incapable of staying on beat. They don't follow the music, the band has to try and follow them....which is something like chasing a rabbit through a thicket. They zig and zag, cutting off lines and jumping into new ones before it's time. And to add insult to injury someone in the audience even complained that the the band wasn't following the singers properly.
We take it all in stride, it's for a good cause and there are always a couple of participants who are really pretty good which eases the pain. But invariably one or two of the rhythm manglers will take the opportunity to issue me a pressing invitation to come over to his house to jam with he and his buddies. I'm sure they think I'm the world's biggest snob but I draw the line at that. Playing behind someone who's never on tempo is no pleasure, it's hard labor!
Anyone else had to deal with this phenomenon?

yes...I have played many times in situations like this.

When this happens, I assume the time signature for each song is 1/4 and you count that "One, One, One, One" so that any beat is the first beat of the next measure

(c) Dave Van Allen 2004

Been there and done that. Got the T-shirt, hat and whole wardrobe. I think the problem with the "stars" is that they sing along with radio or canned music. Want to see them really flip out? Do a ride instead of a turnaround and see how lost they get. Those that stay on key and in time probably play an instrument and work out their own arrangements.

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MCI D10 8/4 and Nashville 400

Dave! That is one I'll remember. We have a fellow, old-timer, goes by the name Country Joe (but without the "gimme an F!") who supposedly fronts a band but always seems to want to sing one song with us Sunday nites. Although a harmless and nice enough guy, it's never real welcome and it's always King Of The Road and he always drops beats left and right. One. One. One.....Got it.

Dave, I'd like to hear an MP3 file to demonstrate that. I'm completely theory ignorant. But since I've never been threatened or assaulted by musicians I've played with I believe I'm usually on key and in time. Luckily, at least that much comes naturally for me. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Miller on 19 November 2004 at 12:02 PM.]</p></FONT><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Bill Miller on 19 November 2004 at 12:03 PM.]</p></FONT>

I feel your pain,brother...I feel your pain...and a one,and a two......

The band leader I worked for, years ago, did that all the time.There were always willing particapents ready to tax the band.Some were quite good, though. But, most had the uncanny habit of skipping time, leaving out beats, running verses into each other. Quite natural for them, I guess. Then, they would look at you, as if we did something wrong by not playing in the Helen Keller trio or something. Actually, that episode made it possible to back almost anybody up, no matter what. I've gained quite a unique talent thanks to those "wannabe stars". I hope I never have to utilize that talent again!

Had a guy one night wanted to sit in on drums. I said why,I don't know you, how do I know you're capable? He took his shirt off and had a Zildian cymbal tatooed on his entire back! I said that's good enough for me, let him play, and was sorry in one measure! The man had no ability at all! Oh well... JP

Quote: "Then, they would look at you, as if we did something wrong by not playing in the Helen Keller trio or something. "

LOL!!! That's pretty funny John. And I know the exact 'look'.
I forgot to mention that a few of "singers" came in while we were setting up in the afternoon. One of the regulars (also one of the very worst rhythm offenders) wanted to do a little run through so he bounded up on the stage with his buddy's very beautiful and expensive Washburn acoustic electric guitar. The guy goes to sit on a stool and promptly goes right over backwards, crashing down inches from my guitar. He didn't hurt himself and somehow cradled the Washburn so it escaped too. He got quite a laugh and his curly white hair went really well with his crimson face. These amateur shows are seldom boring I must say.

I'm not sure the freestyle rhythm thing is limited to amateurs but I guess Willie Nelson has paid his dues long enough to do whatever he pleases. I must admit when I saw him tour in Australia, I was glad I was not his drummer. But maybe he does the anti-rhythmic thing predictably and tastefully enough to be able to follow him each night. I still enjoyed the show of course, and I wouldn't be knocking back a place on his bandstand regardless (as if).

Back in the late 60's I had a drummer who was pretty good except for the times he would add one beat during a turn around. He would be back in the measure one beat behind us. It was confusing at first, but eventually all the others in the band learned to recognize it and we'd just hang back a beat till we all came into the next measure together.

As for the rythum challanged singers, done that too many times. So many times in fact, you begin to think you know where something will go amiss and plan for it only to find that time they do it right and you are wrong...er...right...but still wrong.

But one of my favorite stories, we played several months at a Hotel, and this 30 something kept bugging us to get her husband up because he sounded like Dean Martin. After weeks of saying no, we relented just to get her off our butts. And guess what...He sounded exactly like Dean Martin. I mean exactly. After that we invited him up several times and he said, "No thanks."

Go figure.

Most of the singers and players with good rhythm and timing used a metronome when they started learning.

I guess the ones who aren't very good with rhythm and timing used an hour-glass or egg-timer! (LOL)

Ken Lang I bet I can name that dummer!Some singers,a tuner couldn't help them, I had to add that Joe. Ken I have to say it, are his Initial G.G. <FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Joe Miraglia on 20 November 2004 at 12:59 PM.]</p></FONT>

My heavens, you mean there's another one in the Jamestown area? My guys initials are Jerry Butera. We had a band called the New Brick Window in the late 60's.

Now G.G. is somewhat puzzling. The only G.G. I recall from that time is Gary Griffen, who did play drums but was never a drummer. Gary and I ran around together for several years. In fact he was best man at my wedding. Am I close?

In the early days of bebop jazz, Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker, etc always jammed at a club in Harlem called Minton's. Of course, all the young jazzers wanted to sit in. But if a musician tried to sit in that wasn't very good, the house band had a great way to make him shut up. On a predetermined hand signal, the whole band would modulate to some foreign key. Unless, the sitter-in had great "ears" he would be completely lost, stumbling around trying to figure out what key they were in, looking like a total fool. If he did manage to find the key, they could always change again.

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Dan Sawyer
Carvin D8, Rickenbacher B6, Fender Deluxe 8® (stringmaster), Fender Deluxe 8 (trap), Gibson EH-150, Wayne Lap Steel, Fender "White" 6-string w legs, Carvin steel w HiseTri-plex.


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dan Sawyer on 20 November 2004 at 08:54 PM.]</p></FONT>

I have also been there and done that. We have a guy in the band who at times does that. No sense of timing. We can't fire him cause he is married to the very talented boss lady. Makes Willie's timing sound perfect.

Mr. Hinson, That's funny!!! I think I once played with someone who started off by using a calendar, and it was a leap year. Oy vey!! Poor me!!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Chris Forbes on 21 November 2004 at 06:14 AM.]</p></FONT>

I was watching the band conductor at my daughter's band concert in 8th grade this past week. I got to thinkin' that there can't be much anything more difficult that getting and keeping 50 plus middleschoolers in-time, on-key, and on the same page of music.

I have two grandsons' who started taking piano lessons at a young age. I noticed right off that whatever simple little tune they played they ALWAYS counted out the time. They can't play a lot of songs but whatever they play is on key and in time, something they will have the rest of their life. Wish I had a taken band when I was in school but then we thought band guy's were sissy's. But they got all the girls.

A fun thing to do with wannabee singers is to kick off the tunes in keys that are way too high for them to hit the notes. Sounds like a trainwreck, and is always a pleasure to watch.

Ken, I've played with guest singers like that. The band got so that we know where the dropped or extra beats went, since each singer was at least consistant. Quite an education.

I believe the technical term for this syndrome is "moveable one".The difference between singers and musicians is that musicians know there's something to know.

Ever tried to play along with a Waylon Jennings CD? What if he showed up at one of your jams? Yeah I know he's not around anymore. But there is a point to make.

Glenn,

Your approach doesn't always work. I've experienced a few who sing in their own key -- regardless of what key the band is playing in.

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Ahhh, the atonal singer !!