Gibson guitar intonation problems

Drew Howard · From: 48854

The guitarist in our band plays an old ES-330. He hasn't noticed it, but as he plays up the neck the intonation is way off. I've heard a few of the vintage Gibson models had fretboard scale inaccuracies. Any truth to that? Anyways, it's annoying!

thanks,
Drew

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Fessenden D-10 8+8 / Magnatone S-8 (E13)

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Yes! Martins from the '70s had these problems, too. It really was inexcusable, but the 1970s were a bad period for US-made guitars - the worst-ever Fenders were made then, too. Fortunately, the threat from the Japanese makers made them all pull their socks up!

Is this Gibson '70s, though, or earlier?

RR

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

The 330 should have adjustable bridge-saddles, but if it's the actual position of the bridge or, worse, the cutting of the frets, it's a major job.

Kind of difficult to get him to spend the money if he hasn't yet heard the problem

....

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

It could be a technique problem.

You can get away with pressing too hard on the lower frets, but as you move higher the heavy-handedness becomes more obvious.

Help him to check the notes at different positions using an electronic chromatic tuner. Advise him to press as lightly as possible, without getting fret buzz.

This exersize will make him aware of the problem, and identify it as being the guitar or player.

Another thoought...
The 330's had a trapeeze tailpiece that could cause tuning issues when the player rests the heal of his hand on them.

Rick McDuffie · From: Benson, North Carolina, USA

I never thought the 330 was much of a guitar to start with.

BUT it should play in tune with the bridge in the right position, assuming the frets are true. Any competent guitar tech should be able to diagnose the problem in a moment.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

The 330 is a fine guitar, basically a 335 with no center block. It has it's own sound. Used by players such as Grant Green to Emily Remlier.

I have repaired guitars for 30 years now. I have never seen a Gibson guitar with an incorrect fret scale. I can just about guarantee you that there is nothing wrong with the guitar from a fret/fingerboard standpoint. What I can guarantee you is if this instrument has old frets on it that are flat in certain areas, if the bridge pieces are not adjusted, if the truss rod is not correctly adjusted, if the strings are old, if the action is bad, if the guy can't tune it to begin with then yes there will be problems with the intonation in the upper register.

You would be amazed at how much a change in intonation happens just with where you press the string down. How much pressure the player uses etc.

Don't blame the guitar. I have set up thousands of them and have not found one Fender or Gibson that had tuning problems as a result of a bad fingerboard.

Jerry Erickson · From: Atlanta,IL 61723

I'm with Bill on getting that guitar a good setup. You also don't want to have the pickup pole pieces too close to the strings as this can also hinder intonation. As for other notable ES-330 players, there's also those two guys from the Beatles.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:25 PM.]

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Phelps.

Thanks for reminding me of the neck joint on the 330. I am trying to remember any of the other Gibson electric instruments from say the 60's up that joined the body at the 15th fret. Did the Gibson "Crest" model join at the 15th??

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:25 PM.]

John Steele (deceased) · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

My first impulse was to write a careful dissertation on guitarists and their conditioned tendencies in being the only lead voice in the band before the (tuning sensitive) steel player arrived, but... I'll try to condense.
Think he'd sound better on a Fender, Drew ? I think it'd be worth the test.

-John

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Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:25 PM.]

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Phelps.

I like ANY guitar that has that old Gibson bar pickup. I have a 1936 ES150 Gibson that is all original and sounds and plays great.

In the early 70s Gibson made what they called a 175CC with the bar pickup. I had one of those for a while also.

Sticking with the intonation subject here, I have had numerous situations where one band member would bring in another band member and complain about intonation problems.
First thing that needs to be done is to explain that fretted guitars are designed not to play PERFECTLY in tune and how tempered tuning works and what affects the tuning on the instrument in regards to bridge,neck,truss rod, strings,fret condition etc. so that the player who is "supposedly" out of tune will understand the situation better.

I bet if the person involved here would just put on a new set of strings, adjust the action of the guitar to a decent height without much fret buzz, adjust the saddles at the bridge so that the 12th string harmonic and the fretted 12th matches up and then tune the guitar with a tuner so that all the pitches are stright up on the tuner and then tune the G string just a few cents flat in order to give temperment to the major third of the E position and C position chords there would be quite an improvement.

The other best scenario would be a refret so that the condition of the frets would be as nice as possible and then all the other adjustments.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

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[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:26 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

I think the shorter scale length of the Gibsons makes them harder to tune, and therefore harder to intonate correctly. And the problem is compounded by them little bitty slinky spider web light gauge strings, that I cannot get to chord in tune, worse farther up the neck. I use either 10's or 11's, and both my Les Paul and my ES-175 are 'bout as good as a fretted guitar is gonna get.

Rick McDuffie · From: Benson, North Carolina, USA

Right on, Steve. I'm using 11's on the Les Paul and flatwound 12's on the jazz guitars. Intonation is less of an issue AND the magnet has got some string to interact with.

It's a challenge to try to pull a 12 up a whole step on the Gretsch while that Bigsby is giving way, too!

Bill, my problem with the 330's is only that they aren't 335's!

Rick

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 03 September 2004 at 11:30 AM.]

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

I was in a repair shop yesterday and a guy came in with a Les Paul "with a tuning problem"- and a very bowed bridge- the actual bridge had sunk in the middle- evidently, the bridges were designed over the in-thru-the-back-of-the-tailpiece style of stringing rather than the stop tailpiece (where you get more string tension by torquing down the bolts) and the bridges were under-engineered for the added tension- if that bridge is bowed, a replacement might help the tuning problem.

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Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

I've always played with very low action on my Gibsons and never had any problems on tuning or intonation. I've see players who used high actions however who did play out of tune. It's a fact that the higher your action the easier it is to play out of tune as you have to push the string exactly straight down to intonate properly so the farther away from the fret the string is, the harder it is to do that. I agree with whoever said that the problem is probably with the player than the guitar. I've never owned a 330 but have worked with guitarists who used them and never had any problems with a 330 in the hands of a competent player. Have a good 'un, JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.