Allison Kraus and Sting/ Oscars - what was he pl

Dave Horch · From: Frederick, Maryland, USA

What the heck was he playing? Some sort of stringed acoustic looking thing that he had to crank with his right hand. Perhaps it's an Irish sort of thing, but I've never seen anything like it before. Did you see it? Any ideas? Best, -Dave

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Mullen D-10
Photo page

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

A '65 Sho-Bud that was heavily modified by three owners before being sold on ebay as all-original? Nah, that was a Hurdy Gurdy Sting was cranking. Some basic info about Hurdy Gurdy's is available here:
http://www.s-hamilton.k12.ia.us/antiqua/hurdy.htm

And here: http://www.hurdygurdy.farmcom.net/

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 29 February 2004 at 07:56 PM.]

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

Interesting website.....there's a 3 string and a 6 string. I wonder if they have heated debates just like D10 vs U12 ?

Donna Dodd · From: Acworth, Georgia, USA

Thanks for the information, Andy. Tommy and I kept thinking something might pop out of the center after a few more cranks.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Ah now THAT is curious.
The instrument described would be in England a Hurdy Gurdy, in France a "Vielle".

It is akin to the violin, but the bow is round, and it has 1 string constantly bowed that is stopped by pressing keys laterally that directly push the string onto the neck.

It also has several drone strings that constantly play tuned to a chord.
And one is often set with an distorting bar, the DOG or Chein in french, that gives that occasional buzzing sound when you crank hard and cause the string movement to get bigger and then touch the dog.
Some what like a sitar. This sound would annoy my wife no end.

This is a main instrument in the tradional music scene here. The go for from $600 to $5,000 a piece.

The one shown on the S.hamilton page is very small and looks home made, but nice. It is rarer.

The other one I would guess is around $3,000 and is the much more typical watermelon/ lute form. And a very fine example.
There is a Pajut shown, and I have played two of them, fine instruments.

I can play it a bit, but don't own one, it is on my list.

No Howard, the dabate isn't quite as fierce.
Most are 6 strings, but you don't always have to use all strings. Sometimes you blank some and get a different chord. I did see one that you could change chords quickly from a major tuning to minor.

Every year in l'Indre Dept., the week before the 14th July independance day holiday here,
a village called St Chartier has a huge trad festival, and luthiers rendezvous. There will be the majority of the makers of these instruments and other instruments, with stands around the castle and you can play many fine examples.
One of the finest mandolins I ever touched was there a few years back.

Also of the 29,000 visitors about 7,000 hang out in the camping and play 24/5 for the week.
Like nothing you have ever seen, maybe a bluegrass festival would come to mind... if you're deaf.

Any acoustic music from the last 1000 years. big balkan influence the last few years, but also spanish, irish, french, english, dutch, danish, russian, cajun, klezmer, country, bluegrass, old timey and more. In 2/4, 3/4, 6/8, 7/8, 13/8 etc.Often at blinding speeds too.

There are 3 nights of open air ball with around 6-8 bands on stages about 30-40 feet apart,
each playing something different and hundreds of dancers in front of each. I have seen well over 1000 dancers out there.

Sometimes the bands are 3 vielles, 2 bagpipers, a few drummers, a violin, a bombard, lutes, clarinet predecesors, what ever.
If you know a tune just start playing.
Though there are also some actual groups too.
On the main concert stage and smaller stages day an night.

Groups just form and arrive on mainstreet and perform in front of 300 people,
or in the beer gardens, the pub, behind trees, in the camping, on doorstoops.

My last night last year I played Klezmer from midnight till 8:30 am.

There is a band Aligot Elements from Auvergne France that is doing a hybrid Trad/Jazz,
with a vielle, violin, guitar, drums bass, and accordian, bombard and other "things".
A truely unique and interesting band. I have two cd's of them.

Last night I was playing at a Trad Ball with a 15 piece band and had a great time, no Vielles though. But lots of twirling earthmothers and other rainbow characters having a great time.

Sting did a song Fields Of Barley with the Corsican super group I Murvrini which was a big hit.
They specialize in adding trad instruments with modern drums, keys and guitar.
They also do 5 voice acapella polyphoney singing that gives you shivers.

So clearly this is where Sting got his Vielle training. Their player is phenomonal and I am sure Sting was really intrigued by this historic instrument and its totally ideosycratic sound.

It's very cool he played that on the show.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 01 March 2004 at 07:33 AM.]

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Yeah, Sting is on the short list of rock/pop stars that are well-rounded musicians. He has "big ears" in terms of the depth and breadth of his musical tastes and influences.

[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 01 March 2004 at 09:07 AM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

I watched this while setting up at the bar last night. My comment (to anyone who would listen---ok, to myself) was "it's probably not everyday that you see a couple of good singers accompanied by a sole hurdy gurdy on national prime time tv." You know how excited we get when we see a steel on tv? Imagine the poor hurdy gurdy freak who went off to take a wiz only to find out later what he just missed.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

If anyone wonders why there is very little country music left in country music; along with where the REAL focus is in country music today; check out the following pic snapped of AK at the Oscars.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

my good friend André Dumas who started the first used Musik Store in Pigalle plays a Vielle (or Hurdy Gurdy) - He's a Parisian Folk singer, in the tradition of the troubadours of the middle ages and the Montmartre cabaret singers.
he even got Jean Yves Lozach to play some steel on his record
edited: here's a nice vielle: http://www.rfcharle.com/HTML/PhotosInstruments/Siorat.html

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 02 March 2004 at 01:39 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

Carl, I'm with you, brother! When I heard about those shoes, I thought, "How many sportcoats could Porter Wagoner get for that??"
But Alison has a good sense of humor, I'm sure she got a big laugh out of being loaned a pair of 2 million dollar shoes!

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

In a business where tradition permits the wearing of Nudie suits, what are the boundaries of good taste?

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

Is it a new millenium where a Rounder recording artist is wearing 2 million dollar shoes?!?! Stranger than fiction!

Chris Lasher · From: Blacksburg, VA

Chris Lasher · From: Blacksburg, VA

Here's the story behind the shoes.

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

and here I thought Rounder would just take it from the recoupable...

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

We discused the veilles, and the shoes...
One thing never mentioned so far...
What song did they do???

Chris here is a link to the festival.
It is one of my best musical times.
I have gone 3 times, during 1 & 3 I played over 35 hours of music each time. The middle one, I was in transit house hunting, no time but had to stop for an evening.
Gonna go again this year.

The pics just hint at this wonderfull zoo of musicians.
http://www.saintchartier.org/flash.htm
They seem to be redoing the site, so the tres drole photos aren't there right now.
But also look here.
http://sddelorm.free.fr/sites/vallee/luth.htm

And see also
http://st-chartier.trad.org/
lots of good pics here.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 02 March 2004 at 06:53 PM.]

Dave Horch · From: Frederick, Maryland, USA

Ah Ha! It seems that Sting has introduced an east coast United States dope like me to yet another facinating instrument.

Like Donna said, I also was sort of waiting for the "jack in the box" clown to pop out after awhile!

Man! We think the PSG is complex, how 'bout having to crank it at the same time!?

Seriously, David L. Donald, how is the name of the instrument pronounced in France? Is it "Vee Ell", or "Vee Ell Eee", "Vee Ell Ess" or..??? Funny that the Brits must have said "screw that" and called it a "hurdy gurdy". I'm such a dope I took latin in school! Wonderful URL links, by the way.

So now I'm the the last idiot in the world to finally understand what Donovan was singing about "Twas then that the hurdy gurdy man came singing songs of love" or something like that. I'm such a dope! I thought he was smoking bananas!

Best, -Dave

[This message was edited by Dave Horch on 02 March 2004 at 09:58 PM.]

erik · Posted 2 Mar 2004 10:17 pm

I was also thinking of Donovan.

What is an organ grinder compared to a hurdy gurdy? Any relation there?

erik · Posted 2 Mar 2004 10:40 pm

Here's a good link: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/genfaq.html

Anne Marie O Keeffe · From: Co.Waterford,Ireland.

Can someone explain how Alison Krauss wearing expensive shoes has anything to do with why there is "very little country music left in country music".

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Dave, your first version is closest ~Vee Ell

If the I and E were reversed it would be pronounced Ve yea, thank fully it isn't.
A horrible sound for anglophones to pronounce.

The only similarity between the vielle and the organ grinder is the crank.

The organ grinder is more of a computer music programer with the 1st pre-midi organ or a player piano... and a strong arm.

But it doesn't take a musician to play it, you can buy the linked music cards like sheet music pre-made and just crank away. So it really can be run by a moron and a monkey.
Nice sound, but not a musicans thing, unless your writing the program cards, much like the ENIAC computers from the 50's.

In the occasional times I have gone busking on the street with friends, we all really resent a loud organ grinder coming along at a cafe. We work hard to create music and he just cranks and takes in money.

The Vielle is more a cross between a violin, with an accompanying string section
with buzzbox percusion player, than an organ.
The main two issues are that:
No bowing technique is needed,
It has a 2 or 3 tier lengthwise keyboard running along the strings length.
press the key in and it slides across and frets the string.

It is similar to playing bass one handed in some ways.
Except you play overhand not underhand.
So any note intonation is not made by the player, unlike a real violin.
Which can be a blessing if you have ever been near a bad fiddler.

But it is a real instrument and takes musical talent and practice to play. That said you could be playing a simple song in 1/2 hour or less
and complex tunes in a few days from starting.
After that is a querstion of learning how to decide which drones to use when etc.

A similar concept is the Mountain Dulcimer. It has retunable drone strings and a melody string freted by hand with a stick.

The veille can actually be quite effective for fiddle tunes and bluegrass. Just play without drones. A simple vielle would be the fastest way for a non fiddler to add that sound to his repetoire.
I can easily hear old Joe Clark or the like on it. It would go over big at bluegrass festivals.

There are some that are totally modern and just crazy punk rock designs too.
Elvis stickers, barbiedoll heads, and auto crome mounted on them. Tres Drole!

But they can be effectively miced up internally and sound great in a band situation on a large loud stage.

I want to hear this album with Vielle and steel mentioned above. I have heard this sound in my head before.

And yes that is what the Donovan song was about. It is a old world buskers instrument, where the travaling troubador could have a full classical sound background and enough presence of mind left over while playing to sing long story songs.

In many ways this is Stings musical heritgage as a English troubador.
He is a story teller/moralist, AND a singer.
And arguablly the best/broadest educated most eclectic popstar around.

My Welsh buddy noted I Murvrini is not the 1st Hurdy Gurdy influence on him, he really knows the english song tradition.

AMOK, I think it is the general sellout of country to commercial interests that irks many.
Alison is one who has not sold out.
She is still real bluegrass. Gotta love it.

But would any woman needing to wear an evening dress turn down the chance to take a turn in those shoes...
Manolo Blaunick eat your heart out!

I wonder how many bluegrass albums it would take to buy those shoes... lets see...
@ $15 a pop = 133,333 bluegrass albums or
66,667 per shoe. Oh yeah and $50 for the pedicure!

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 March 2004 at 04:04 AM.]

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

A cousin is the Nyckleharp a swedish version like a violin.

~This critter you do bow, and it can have as many as 10 resonant drone strings.
I was playing one last St Chartier for about a 1/2 an hour. An erie and lovely sound, but harder than vielle.

For more see here with pics of how it's held etc.
http://www.nyckelharpa.org/info/

and also here
http://www.nyckelharpa.com

http://nyckelharpansforum.net/2003b/f50.htm

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 03 March 2004 at 04:19 AM.]

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

The hurdy-gurdy that Sting played is a 1749 Jean Louvet worth about $80,000.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

ooh la la I am drooling bigtime.
I have even heard of Jean Louvet.

I think the most famous Hurdy Gurdy player is Spencer Tracy... yep him.
Though Sting has just jumped to no. 2

I just saw the classic film Captains Courageous, and ST. played it and sang in several scenes. And that hurdy gurdy was intergal to the plot too.

Dave Horch · From: Frederick, Maryland, USA

DLD wrote; "What song did they do???" I also wonder. Beautiful, but what tune?

I loved it, but didn't recognize it. I guess it was a nominee for best song? I'm such a dope!

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