Ride" Etymology

Lawrence Lupkin · Post by **Lawrence Lupkin** » 7 Jan 2004 3:51 pm

Where and when was this word first used to describe a solo? Although I'm by no means a seasoned musician, I don't believe I had heard it before taking up the steel. Then again, I wasn't part of any musician's forums before the steel either.
Thanks in advance!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 7 Jan 2004 4:33 pm

I've never seen a reference to a musical "ride" in a dictionary, but one of the definitions of "ride" is "an enjoyable excursion". That seems metaphorically fitting, and may indeed be the root of the term, but I've no idea who first coined it.

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 7 Jan 2004 4:34 pm

it means something else altogether in the UK/Ireland!

Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 7 Jan 2004 4:59 pm

I've used the term "ride" many times. I've also used the term "break" to describe a solo. Someone informed me years ago that break was not the correct term. But, what the heck, I still use it from time to time.

Ken
http://home.ipa.net/~kenwill

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 7 Jan 2004 10:27 pm

I've heard both Ride and Break used interchangeably, but "ride" is somehow more appealing to me, probably for the reasons Donny mentioned. I always refer to a solo as a ride, but my son, who is cutting his teeth just now on six string, calls it a solo. He also calls a baseman as bassist, and what the bassist plays is a bass line, rather than the bass lick. Times, they is a'changin.

jd

Carter York · Post by **Carter York** » 8 Jan 2004 7:08 am

Could "Remington Ride" have anything to do with it?

CY

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 8 Jan 2004 1:09 pm

Probably the same guy that "invented" the term for steel guitar as being "an axe".

Randy Pettit · Post by **Randy Pettit** » 8 Jan 2004 2:47 pm

Could "Remington Ride" have anything to do with it?

"Ride" sounds better than "Remington's Solo".

[This message was edited by Randy Pettit on 08 January 2004 at 02:47 PM.]

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 8 Jan 2004 3:05 pm

Apparently this term dates in the jazz/swing era.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDMISS70401081808180345&sql=S252

------------------
Jeff's Jazz

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 8 Jan 2004 4:29 pm

Joe a bass line is made up of many bass licks.
In rock bands it's often bassplayer, in jazz it has often been bassist or contrabassist. I have been both. Like violinist or clarinetist.

I think it's better to have someone say to me,
Go take a break. vs Go take a ride.

I believe ride in the jazz ideum refers to riding over the changes sort of like floating.
This is pre bop, and is no longer used in jazz to my knowledge, other than historically.

But it seems the steel world has adopted it.

Post by **b0b** » 8 Jan 2004 5:31 pm

moved to 'Music' section

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 8 Jan 2004 6:09 pm

It seems to me that I've only ever heard Southern musicians use the term "ride" when referencing a solo. "Vamp" is another interesting term, and I heard it for the first time up here in the Pacific Northwest.

Nate LaPointe · Post by **Nate LaPointe** » 9 Jan 2004 12:32 am

I have never heard the word "ride" used for a solo here on the west coast. The jazzers here call soloing "blowing."

"Let's take it at the blowing section."

My guess is that this comes from a sax or horn player traditionally taking the solo.[This message was edited by Nate LaPointe on 09 January 2004 at 12:32 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 9 Jan 2004 2:07 am

Hi Rick, This confirms for me that it was a regional term, not left coast or right coast.
I never heard it once in NYC or Boston jazz scenes, nor at Berklee.

So it must be out of the New Orleans, Kansas City or St Louis scenes.

Vamp is common. Basically just playing a root or five chord, or a small pattern till the soloist or head starts.
Get in the groove and wait.
Or playing a groove after or between melodic sections, but without a defined melody or solo on top.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 09 January 2004 at 02:28 AM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Jan 2004 6:01 am

OK, but while we're at it, what's a "piano-picker"? as in: "He sure picks good pianer"

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 9 Jan 2004 6:34 am

...like that line in the old AJ song, 'Five pickers in old Dodge truck...'

No drummer, I guess!

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 9 Jan 2004 6:49 am

Maybe the term "ride" is regional as someone above said. Being from Oklahoma, it's always been associated with western swing, and sometimes with progressive jazz. Country musicians usually just say
"take a break" or a "turnaround".

Another term that I've been hearing used more and more frequently by some of the younger country-music singers is asking me to play an "instrumental" during their song......I've been tempted to do just that and play a rousing chorus of steel-guitar rag right in the middle of thier song but so far I have resisted the temptation!

www.genejones.com

Lawrence Lupkin · Post by **Lawrence Lupkin** » 9 Jan 2004 7:22 am

Thanks y'all. I have been suitably enlightened.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 9 Jan 2004 9:04 am

To Mike Winter...

Winnie mentions a "Memphis Vamp" in his little record that came with his PSG book of 1976-77 time frame. When did you first hear the term? (Believe it or not I still have mine and it still plays...)

Best regards...[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 09 January 2004 at 09:05 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 9 Jan 2004 9:41 am

Well, ride, break, axe and vamp were in use in North Mississippi in the'50s, and I always assumed they all originated in the 30s, or earlier, in jazz circles in New Orleans and the other river cities. Ride, break, and solo were used interchangeably. But "break" also sometimes meant a bridge (a short change in the chord progression between the regular verses or choruses). "Axe" seemed to originally refer only to regular guitars, and seemed to come from the fact that the neck resembled an axe handle, and the body the axe head. It later came to be applied to any instrument.

As in the U.K., "ride" certainly has other meanings. A rider is a sexual partner. The old song is not really about a woman named C. C. Rider. The words are really "See, see, [my] rider. See what you have done." Come to think of it, isn't taking a musical ride second only to sex in terms of a natural high?

The potty-mouth in Hip-Hop is nothing new. The tradition of earthy language goes back to the early blues and jazz and beyond. The term "jazz" meant sex. Likewise, the term "rock'n'roll." And "jelly-roll" did not refer to the pastry confection, and "I got the dead shrimp blues...somebody been fishin' in my pond" had nothing to do with fishing for crustaceans, although the meaning is totaly crusty. I could go on and on. A "vamp" was a "ho." But I think the musical term just came from the sound made by closely blocked chords played by early jazz guitarists. You know, "vmp, vmp, vmp, vmp." That would be onomatopoea, right (this has nothing to do with masturbation, and means a word that resembles the sound it describes)? African American culture has always had a more open and honest approach to sex than puritanical white American culture, and this was especially true in the Victorian era, when whites put fabric covers on piano "legs." And since black culture was suppressed so harshly, blacks in America developed lots of very colorful slang with hidden or double meanings, although you usually don't have to think too hard to discern the meaning. I love it, but then, I ain't no puritan. [This message was edited by David Doggett on 09 January 2004 at 09:45 AM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 9 Jan 2004 11:17 am

Since b0b locked this topic and moved it here, my earlier post may have been missed (we were uploading simultaneously, and my post actually showed up after b0b locked it down- weird). Anyway, here's what I said in response to David.

"David, jazz players use it all the time.
I should know... I ARE one.

Or, at least, I'm aspiring to BE one... you've never really arrived... you're always studying.

When you're improvising it's like taking a ride. You don't really know where you're going, and you're not always driving... the music takes you where it will. Get in the groove and see what happens... that's the beauty of jazz."

Yes, I think it could be regional. The first time I ever heard the term was from a friend in high school who had just moved to NC from Fort Worth. He was a rock bass player, but had played many dance jobs with his Dad, who was a classically-trained college music prof. (My friend went on to be principal F horn in the Monte Carlo Philharmonic, David... and when I last heard was getting a Ph.D. in conducting from FSU.) At any rate, that term was widely used among sophisticated jazz or "dance" bands in Texas during the early 70's. Here in Raleigh, NC we use the terms "ride" "break" "chorus" and "solo" interchangeably. Actually, we just say, "play one" or "take it"- there ain't time for anything else when you're flying through "How High The Moon" at "Les Paul" speed!

Rick[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 09 January 2004 at 11:29 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 9 Jan 2004 2:14 pm

...or just "point" your finger at someone!....or better yet, just raise your eyebrow!

www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 09 January 2004 at 02:36 PM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 10 Jan 2004 6:45 am

Or give a quick, panicked look... like, "help"!

Perry Hansen · Post by **Perry Hansen** » 10 Jan 2004 7:20 am

We were using "ride", "break',"instramental", And vamp on the West Coast (San Diego) in the 50s. At least, that's where I learned the phrases.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 10 Jan 2004 10:27 am

Gene that's just how Tom Morrell does it;
a glance or an eyebrow and off they go.
Ya got see him sometime.

The french jazzers just say "tu prendre un chorus" you take a chorus.
Which confused me for awhile. I thought they meant I should solo on the B section.

When she says
I need some jelly in my roll,
a little sugar in my bowl
you my candyman
I need some sugar don't be slow.

Well you walk away for this lady an' youse a pure fool.