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Topic: Pancho & Lefty |
Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 12 Mar 2002 11:02 am |
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Help me out here gang...just who was lefty? I love the song and have spent a lot of time with it. After really paying attention to the words, I realized that I may be mising something. Now it sounds like 'ol Lefty the blues singer, sold Pancho out from Ohio...I did a web search and the only "Lefty" associated with Pancho is his old rival(Pancho shot his right arm off) who became president of Mexico and may quite possibly been involved with Panchos' fatal ambush.
I don't think that the president of Mexico retired to Ohio...am I missing another part of this story?
Thanks, Tom
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Sierra S12 Royalty Universal Tuning, Session LTD 400, ProFex II |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 12 Mar 2002 12:48 pm
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Hey Tom--frankly I never dwelt with the lyrics so I don't know squat but it never even occurred to me that the song was anything but fiction. A great song by TVZ, fer sure. Gee, you think there's some historical saga here?
BTW--ever hear a song by Tom Russell, "The Sky Above, The Mud Below" ? Another dark western saga. Gives you shivers. |
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Bob Blair
From:
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 12 Mar 2002 1:08 pm
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| Jon, that Tom Russell song is a real powerful one. Then again, he has written quite a few of them - one of my favorite songwriters. |
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Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 12 Mar 2002 1:16 pm
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Haven't heared that one, but will look it up...I've always prefered story songs though.
I thought if anybody one would know the saga of Pancho and Lefty that it would be on this forum. This place is a regular "think tank". Where else could you you do serious research on a "Jimmy and a White" or a "Georgia Overdrive"? No government agency could tell you that!
Tom |
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 12 Mar 2002 7:59 pm
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I always took it as Pancho being a desparado who the federales couldn't or wouldn't capture, tho their later claim was, "We could have had him any day."
Lefty was someone who rode with Pancho, killed him and took his money and moved to Ohio. Years later, the money is gone, he's living in cheap hotels and feeling sorry for himself about what he had done.
Perhaps he is sorry he didn't take credit at the time for bringing Pancho down, for now it's too late and no one would believe a destitute old man. |
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Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 12 Mar 2002 9:28 pm
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Geez Ken, now I'm depressed....
Thank you for your comments. We might get to the bottom of this caper yet. I might be trying to give the song some historical significance when maybe it was written with just a loose history of the event.
Tom
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nick allen
From:
France
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Posted 13 Mar 2002 12:04 am
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Townes always said it was pure fiction, and to some degree an allegory about outlaws, and those who sold out for an easier life... If you've ever seen the movie Pat Garrett & Billy The Kid (James Coburn & Kris Kristofferson) it's kind of the same idea... People were always asking Townes if it was about Pancho Villa - it wasn't.
I think if you do an internet search on Townes Van Zandt, you'll almost certainly come up with some interviews where he talks about the song.... I originally learned it from Emmylou Harris' version, which I have to say I prefer to the Willie/Haggard one (sorry, guys  )
Nick |
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JB Arnold
From:
Longmont,Co,USA (deceased)
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Posted 13 Mar 2002 5:54 am
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Townes was always pretty cosmic-I doubt there's any relation to reality here at all-unless it was pure accident.
I like the EmmyLou vwesion better too.
John
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Fulawka D-10 9&5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 13 Mar 2002 9:08 am
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My favorite version of this great song is by Townes himself from the "Live at the Old Quarter" album. IMHO that album is quintescential for every self-penned song Townes performed. It's circa the early 70's with just Townes, a guitar and an attentive audience.
Hey Jon, I hear ya' on the Tom Russell song. A truly great song about injustice and prejudice. Speaking of western sagas, how 'bout the John Phillips (of the Mamas & Papas fame) song "Me and My Uncle" about a gunfighter and his gambler uncle. Or Guy Clark's "The Ballad of the Last Gunfighter". All of these songs are among my favorites and what a would consider real Americana.
Hey JB! Hows that Fulawka treatin' ya'!
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 13 Mar 2002 8:56 pm
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To me, it sounds more like the song is referring to Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid than anything else.
A theory developed over the years and finally came to more widespread recognition in the early 70's that Butch survived a deadly altercation with some government troops down in So. America, while Sun Dance did not.
Apparently, Butch made his way back to the states, married a girl from Michigan or Indiana (or someplace in the midwest) and, after living in Arizona and Colorado for a few years, he and his wife eventually settled in Spokane, WA where he lived out the rest of his days under the alias of William T. Phillips. He died near Spokane of cancer in 1937.
This guy Phillips supposedly looked a lot like Cassidy, and knew a lot of things that only Cassidy would know. He also supposedly went to visit some of his family in Utah in the 20's and also went down to his old stomping grounds in NE Wyoming to visit some of his old buddies. He also wrote a very accurate manuscript of some of Cassidy's criminal exploits which he tried to get published in the 20's and 30's without success. It was actually recently published under the title "Bandit Invincible."
There's an extremely interesting and very credible book about this subject entitled "In Search of Butch Cassidy" that really leaves you wondering . . . It's by Larry Pointer, (c)1977, University of Oklahoma Press, ISBN 0-8061-2143-2. |
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JB Arnold
From:
Longmont,Co,USA (deceased)
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Posted 16 Mar 2002 6:43 pm
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Hi Glenn!
That Fulawka is treatin' me just fine.
The Butch Cassidy thing is the History buff equivalent of the New Country Good/New Country Bad argument on our forum. The way my friends at the University describe it, it sounds like the off topic board. Very Heated.
"Me and My Uncle" was covered in 1970 by the Dead in what has to be the definitive version of that song on the Skull and Roses album. One of my Favorites.
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Fulawka D-10 9&5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 16 Mar 2002 7:17 pm
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| I don't think I ever knew that that was a John Phillips song. That was a strong part of the Dead set when I was following them--same time I first heard that Dead song, Mama Tried . |
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Dan Najvar
From:
McDade, TX
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Posted 17 Mar 2002 11:17 am
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| I realize this has nothing to do with the topic at hand but, the other day I was watching this show on CMT called "Behind the Scenes" featuring Willie Nelson.Anyway,they played the video for Pancho and Lefty and I could've sworn that I saw Townes strumming an acoustic in one scene and playing one of the federalies in another.They never brought it up so I figured I'd ask you guys.Was that him or not? |
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nick allen
From:
France
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Posted 18 Mar 2002 12:15 am
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I've never seen the video, but I know Townes was in it.
Nick |
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Glenn Suchan
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 18 Mar 2002 7:06 am
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Jon, don't feel bad, (about the Me & My Uncle song). At first I thought it was written by Utah Phillips. Shows ya' what I know. 
JB: 'Glad ta' hear the Fulawka's still your axe-of-choice. One of these days I'm gonna have to see and or pick a Fulawka. Maybe when Ricky gets his I'll at least get a chance to see one. Hope your wife is doing well, too!
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
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