The Steel Guitar Forum

I was wondering what y'all though of this.....

Country music, bluegrass, mountain music, hillbilly, even zydaco (sp?) all of course sprang from simple beginnings among everyday American people. Normal people, average people, people who would grab their guitars and fiddles and washboards and mandolins and harmonicas and stuff and get together, just playin' their hearts out. Just regular people of normal skill and ordinary talent playing to the joy of the crowd and themselves. Now, on the other hand, when it comes to recordings (particularly of country music), things change. The musicians are anything but the guy down the road and his trusty ol' dobro. Very much the opposite. You hear licks so doggone hot they can only be played by maybe three guys alive today, with spit-n-polish production. What a contrast.

Please don't misunderstand me, I love perfection. Session players are my heroes. Super tight session work is fabulous to hear, and it certainly gets the public's attention. And I just dream of being able to play steel like the Nashville insiders (ridiculous, of course). But today's country session work, as great as it is, is a few light years from what it seems to be representing: the down-home, grass-roots, hootenanny, let-it-loose, simple-folk roots of country.

Here's an exception: I recently borrowed the soundtrack to O Brother Where Art Thou. Wow, what a change! No real spit and polish, just informal performances like you'd find in a small town square in Tennessee or an old Southern Baptist church or maybe even a hobo camp.

Does anyone else see irony in all this? Comments?

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<font size=-1>Bill (steel player impersonator) | MSA Classic U12 | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?</font>

Bill, I suppose there is some credence to what you say. The music nowadays is so "polished", it darn near makes you turn away! But seriously, recordings have been this way for almost the past 50 years. Only in Bluegrass do they seem to tolerate (and accept) the "looseness" that you speak of. I suppose it's a part of the character of that traditional music.

As for myself, I don't prefer that "perfect" sound you often hear on recordings. Usually, the playing in recordings is very reserved and low-key anyway, and that makes it much easier to "polish" the rough edges, if there are any. But, I much prefer the live sounds of a band with some energy, drive, and imagination.

Bands who play it "just like the record" give me little reason to stay and listen.

I think what you have to keep in mind on a session is the fact any glitch, intonation, etc is "repaired". Whether it's a retake on that particular lick or whether it's done electronically. Both the pickers and the engineer/producer are looking for the absolute best, and if they aren't they shouldn't be in the studio.

But I will agree it tends to get "sterile" now and then. Not like a live performance where everything is not always perfect, regardless if it's a beginner or one of the "gods" of steel. Which brings me to "Jack's Law" - the difference between a professional and amateur is the professional covers up their mistakes.

I guess what we're really talking about isn't the number of errors, but the mindset that seeks to remove all errors to the point where no spirit is left. Or, maybe the type of musician who practices to the point of not making any errors, but has lost any genuine feeling by turning art into a job.

One thing that I think gets overlooked a lot in these discussions is the person behind the music. I watched the A&E Biography on Merle Haggard last night, and I have to wonder if our society can even produce somebody like that now. Not to say that there isn't value in what we're doing now, but when you think about "real country music," I think the single most important factor is the particular life history that gives form to a person's inate gifts. I don't think any of the stuff that is offered as reasons for the state of country music today really gets at the heart of it. The times and conditions that gave shape to the legends of country and bluegrass music don't really exist anymore.

The blues music of today isn't like the old stuff either. It has some of the same merits as today's country, but also some of it's drawbacks.

I prefer some edge and roughness to music to a point. Still in time and key of course. Thats the way it was at the country dances I grew up with. It can all get taken a little too seriously. Then again Im not making and bucks at it.

A few years ago at the ISGC, I went to a Sierra Q & A session with Ron Elliot. Ron said, "Years ago session work was fun, now it is only a job."

Roger

Jeff,you brought out the key word,"values",mine are classic,get down,play when it's your turn and have fun country. Ray

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Steeling is still legal in Arizona

<SMALL> I watched the A&E Biography on Merle Haggard last night, and I have to wonder if our society can even produce somebody like that now. Not to say that there isn't value in what we're doing now, but when you think about "real country music," I think the single most important factor is the particular life history that gives form to a person's innate gifts. </SMALL>

I watched that too and I think Jeff captured the essence of the 1-hour show in a few sentences. Well said!

You’d never know it now, but Merle did have a pretty face at one time, so he might have been able to get his foot in the door were he starting today. It really has become a beauty contest. Fortunately for us, Merle didn’t rely much on Nashville to move his career.

I’d like to see and hear a little more personality – leave a little edge on the sounds, let us here a sweaty finger squeak on a string once in awhile. For example, I get a kick of Joan Herndon Cox’s “Not Bad for a Girl”. On one up-tempo tune they get to the end and you hear someone spontaneously exclaim, “Dang right!” They didn’t edit that out. Instead, the credits read, “… Drums & Dang Right: Randy Hardison”. Personality!


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HagFan

Ron,

Dang right! I have that CD and Joan's playing is in top form. If I had been there on the session I would have said dang right too.

I understand this idea of paying good money for a session and wanting the finished product to be as perfect as possible. I also understand the energy and vigor often heard on a first or second take, and that rather than risk losing that sound the engineer and producer would rather punch in some repairs or true up a flat note. After all, they have the technology.

Having said all that, it's true that some awesome recordings were made in the past with one good microphone and some creative thinking on the part of the producers. It's true that some of the best-sounding recordings of yesteryear were done in one take by well-rehearsed performers. And it's also true that some editing and splicing was used back then to get a more "perfect" sounding product. Performers, groups, and orchestras also used to record with the same musicians they used on their live shows. But it's just not done that way anymore. Today's record buyers have been conditioned to expect a "perfect" recording with perfect fidelity as well. So the singer cuts a "perfect" session using first-class studio musicians and modern technology to create a certain calculated sound, and the road band has to learn it later. Personally I like the "live" sound better than the "canned" sound, I think a live sound has more energy and a vetter vibe, but then I'm not a member of today's record-buying group either.

Tim R.

For the past 89 or 10 months, I've been playing at a few places and a few bands that...we realy don't know Wgo is going to be playing with. I moved to East Tennessee from South Carolina a little over a year ago.I live not far from Carter Fold, Where AP Carter had his store, and his family would sit around and pick music..It wasn't called any thing then..maybe mountain music or mountain gospel. It was just music and then became "Country Music" when it was recorded over in Bristol..at about the same time that the singing brakeman Jimmie Rogers..brought his type of down home blues.
So it was simple...tO GET BACK..WHEN WE GET TO PLAY FOR OUR AUDIENCES..They don't care HOW Polished we are..as long as they can dance to it..slow,fast, waltzing, clogging,and even the line dancing that they learned at the Senior Centers. I played songs that predated me by many years..and maybe nevewr even heard..so the music is entirly unrehearsed..e3xcept those song that have been done previously.The licks that everyone is playing is off the cuff, or prlearned maybe for a different song..and would fit. Bothing poloished..just plain fun.. Thats about what session stuff is ..but ofcourse with much more polish.
This way of playing is realy a challange but enjoyable..and as long as the audiance is happy..so am I. I've mellowed in my vintage age!!!!
GrouchyVet

Bill -

If you really want to here a hot Bluegrass "non-polished" recording, check out J.E. Mainer and the Mountaineer's "Run Mountain" (available on Amazon).

Recorded with one condensor mic, this is anything but polished. Even the musicianship is quite amatuerish (by today's standards), but what a classic performance! I've had this CD over a year and can't stop listening to it. It's a refreshing change from all these over-produced Country/Bluegrass CD's you hear today.

Sounds basically like a family get-together (come to think of it, that's about what it is!).

If you like Bluegrass I highly recommend it!

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Scott

Much of the perfection of todays music results from the advances in equipment. No news there. It was also a big forward step when when someone said, "Hey let's do country in stero with multi tracks, etc."

Does anyone think in the heyday of Ray Price and others that the producers would not use this technology had it been available?

And just think what it would have sounded like. On my. "City lights" in full surround sound. "Together Again" from all corners of the room.

It hurts to think of the possibilities.

I have to agree, Bill.

I appreciate fine musicianship and vocals. But polishing things too much in the studio gets rid of the soul of the music.

Listen to Merle's latest "Roots - Volume I" CD. Recorded in his home, without overdubs. Even I can tell the difference.

Are there mistakes in it? Probably, though I certainly can't tell. But I can tell it was played and sung with passion and soul.

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

I think there are probably other "Merles" walking around right now, but hittng it big requires talent, luck, timing, personality, and ($)backing. I've gone to many a bar, and seen real talent and personality that belongs on the Opry stage...but they'll never make it without everything else falling into place.

I feel real lucky to have seen, heard, and played with these people. We probably all know someone who should'a "made it", but didn't.

It's interesting to me that Garth gets bashed here all the time, yet his records are probably the most real "untouched" records coming out of Nashville. No ProTools, no pitchfixing, no digital fixes, analog tape, a fairly humble studio etc. etc.--just real players playing live together with minimal punches (I actually believe only a couple of the tracks were even cut to a click--way to go Milton Sledge!).

Fixing can be OK though. I just came off the computer from comping vocal tracks for the last 10 hours. All performance takes, with the best of each line snipped out and compiled. I think it is a great way to work. The singer sings whole passes of the song a few times, and you piece it together, instead of punching in over and over and losing the feel on individual lines. Works great IMNSHO.

Too much technology? Hell no, it's just how you use it .

Dale Watson and Wayne Hancock are two good examples of "low-tech" recording artists and their recordings absolutely overflow with deep, true emotion which, unfortunately, ensures that they will never reach mass markets. We live in a very shallow society.

Years ago I had an old 78 Eddie Arnold recording and you could hear someone talking in the background. I never could make out what they were saying.
"Honey" the great Bobby Goldsboro hit was a one take recording.

This might sound odd, but when I hear a mistake, even a tiny one, it makes me feel reassured.

Many years ago blues great Willie Dixon said that he always chose to wax the best take with a mistake on it because it reminded him that the music was made by real people. The older I get (and the more technologically advanced we all get) the more I understand what he meant

Many years ago I did the steel tracks on a 45 for a hopeful star and like most of those it never went anywhere. I made a mistake that they left-in rather than pay for more recording time to redo it. He had a trunkfull of them and managed to get some radio airplay in the Houston area and when he was hiring steel players for his personal appearances they played the mistake note for note along with everything else.

In retrospect, the "mistake" was the best thing I did on that record! www.genejones.com