Fender D8 Stringmaster

Cliff Swanson · Post by **Cliff Swanson** » 20 Mar 2006 6:15 pm

I am selling a 1956 (based on date written under tuner pan), blonde, D8 Stringmaster. Also included in this sale are the original tweed case with bright red lining, and a second hard shell case that I had made for the guitar so I wouldn't have to transport it in the tweed case and risk having it stolen or beat up. The tweed case is in really good shape, no rips in the tweed or handle. The second case is black tolex with brown felt lining and a separate compartment for the guitar legs. Pictures of both are available.`

The guitar has been well maintained. There are a couple of places where a former owner touched up the paint a bit (send for pics). There is a small nick into the wood on the front of the guitar, and there is a small scratch on the lower fretboard at the 9th fret. I've taken pictures of all of these warts along with overall shots of the guitar and cases so all can be seen. Please email me for pics.

This guitar is of the push-button neck chager switch vintage. All of the electronics work, but the push button that selects the lower neck is finicky and sometimes doesn't fully engage. I am not going to take the guitar apart to fix this, but from what I have heard, this problem is not terribly unusual and can be remedied by working with the contacts and springs under the cover plate. This would have to be done by the buyer or someone familiar with this repair. I am selling the instrument as it is.

I have tried to describe all of the minor flaws with this guitar to be complete and honest about its condition. Frankly, it's a beauty. Again please email for pictures and I'll gladly send them all.

Price for the guitar, original tweed case, and custom hard case all together is $1300.00 plus insured shipping from zip code 27609.

Cliff Swanson
twangcat@nc.rr.com

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 20 Mar 2006 9:19 pm

Cliff, what's the scale length?

Cliff Swanson · Post by **Cliff Swanson** » 21 Mar 2006 3:28 am

A couple of folks have asked about the scale length. It's 22-1/4.

I received email from 4 different people within just a couple of minutes of each other last night. I'm sending out pics and answering questions as quickly as I can, but I'll have to run out to work in about 30 minutes. I will definitely answer all email, so please don't get the impression that I'm blowing anyone off

. I will get back to you the moment I have time this evening, if I don't get to your email yet this moring.

Thanks for the interest,

Cliff

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 21 Mar 2006 4:57 am

Now this is a real....Cliff hanger

Cliff Swanson · Post by **Cliff Swanson** » 21 Mar 2006 6:52 am

Dear Forumites,

I didn't expect as overwhelming a response to this sale as I got. I love steel guitars, and I know how much they mean to everyone who attends this forum. I also know the frustration of wanting something and missing out on it just because the email server didn't work fast or other email glitches out of one's control. So my response this moring in continuing communication with people who had contacted me was to express my desire to be fair and not cut someone out of the sale on the basis of a couple minutes difference in when I received their email or even the order I happened to open them once they all got into my mail box. So I told each of the people that there were others, and said that I'd like to know whether they were serious about the sale, and suggested that further email include a bid for the guitar and cases. My intention was simply to try and have a means for giving everyone interested a fair shot at this guitar by indicating their willingness to perhaps pay a bit more than my asking price. I hope this decision on my part is accepted in the spirit of giving interested potential buyers an opportunity. I deliberately didn't put this Stringmaster on eBay because I'll feel good about it going to a player, someone will appreciate it for its intended purpose. I am perfectly willing to take the asking price and have the sale go to the first email contact I opened, if that's what seems the most fair in the Forum's wisdom. I simply figured that having interested parties place a bid above the asking price was a more fair way of everyone having an opportunity to express their interest and get the guitar on the basis of what they would willfully pay rather than an arbitrary arrival of email or my order of opening them.

I'm asking for some opinions here. I want to continue in the spirit of being a fair-minded Forum participant. I apologize to anyone who might have been offended or thought I was changing the rules mid-stream in this sale by suggesting that it be an auction. I didn't really think of it in terms of screwing someone over, I was just trying to level the field among the interested parties. If that seems unfair, then I'll go back to the idea of first come, first served at the initial price of $1300.00.

I apologize for any confusion or ill-will (nobody has expressed any of that to me, I've just had more time to consider the issue myself). If those who have contacted me are ok with the idea of the sale being determined by bidding above the asking price, I'll just be sending that much more money to the Forum than I would have originally.

Sincerely,

Cliff

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 21 Mar 2006 7:10 am

My opinion? You have the absolute right to do as you choose. Fair or unfair does not change that. If you find that you have underpriced the guitar and want to cancel the sale and start over again, it is your right. But you are buying a bunch of ill will in the process. Some of it undeserved, some of it deserved.
The #1 thing to do if you are primarily interested in good will and fairness is to sell it to the first (judged by the time stamp on the email) person who said he would take it at your asking price. This would take precedence over someone just asking for photos.
To turn it into an auction---again, there is no rule against doing what you want. But it's a peeve of mine, changing the rules. But there are no rules.

The moral of the story would have to be that you should have done some homework on the market before posting this. You can still go for better money but not without pissing some people off.

This is just my honest assessment, with no attitude and with some sympathy for the spot you've put yourself in.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 21 Mar 2006 7:23 am

Your original ad was for a set price of $1300 and then you decided to change to best offer--too much like bait and switch even if you did not mean it to be.

I would forget all this "level playing field" rationale and just come right out and say that as a result of the response for the guitar that you now feel like you advertised it too low and start over. Other wise, you would have taken the first person to say that they would take the guitar. Advertise it for $1300 OBO (that means lower OR higher). When you get the offer you want then take it.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 21 Mar 2006 7:51 am

You can do what you want but I would not buy anything from somebody who set a price and then changed it. I would make sure that I never buy anything from you in the future. I sell things pretty often on the forum. Sometimes I sell them for under market just to get them sold quick and easy to fellow steel players. I ignore all the tire kickers and low ballers and just sell it to the first guy that has the sense to just buy it.

If you want to make as much money as possible for the Stringmaster stop dicking around with us and put it on Ebay.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 21 Mar 2006 8:03 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The moral of the story would have to be that you should have done some homework on the market before posting this. You can still go for better money but not without pissing some people off.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said Jon.

Cliff, if I were you, I would START at 1800.00..... It is worth it. Just because you were uncertain about the value in the beginning, does not mean you should be taken advantage of. That is a nice guitar and should bring a decent price. No need to give it away. Don't worry about offending someone. You did not realize the fair value of your guitar. Now you do.

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I'd rather be opinionated, than apathetic!

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 21 Mar 2006 8:06 am

You can do what you want but I would not buy anything from somebody who set a price and then changed it. I would make sure that I never buy anything from you in the future.

Bob Hoffnar, Cliff made an honest mistake. So, what now? Just give it away? Stuff happens. It is obvious that he did not realize the value.[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 21 March 2006 at 08:10 AM.][This message was edited by Curt Langston on 21 March 2006 at 08:10 AM.]

Colm Chomicky · Post by **Colm Chomicky** » 21 Mar 2006 9:26 am

I agree with Curt.

I don't know Cliff and I don't know how bad Cliff may need the cash. It's still his guitar and he should not have to suffer a penalty for asking too low a price. I don't believe Cliff is trying to milk the highest price out of the group here, just get a fair price from from someone who will use the guitar instead of reselling or stuffing under the bed for investment purposes.

No matter what Cliff does, maybe the same amount of people are going to disaggree. Cliff can't make everyone happy so he ought to do what makes himself most comfortable. I hope Cliff is not selling because of hard times or anything like that, but if it is for hard times or other expenses, then he does deserve to get a fair price even if a few feathers are ruffled.

Mark Herrick · Post by **Mark Herrick** » 21 Mar 2006 9:44 am

Date and timestamp on e-mail seems the fairest way to go. (Keep in mind time zone differences.)

Asking for pictures of something at this price level also seems fair to me. I wouldn't penalize someone for asking to see pictures first. In other words, they don't give up their place in line just because they asked for pics before committing to buy.

You could also stipulate that local buyers have preference if you would rather not ship.

If you are just looking for the highest price you can get...take it to eBay.

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Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 21 Mar 2006 10:04 am

Seller has nothing to be ashamed about. It is a matter of supply and demand. He offered it for sale. He did not specifically say to one person "It's your's" and back out. He fielded offers. He is under no obligation to sell it to the first bidder or any bidders for that matter. Considering the response, he is justified in raising the price to maximize his return.

The potential buyers knew he had underpriced it, thus the immediate response.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 21 Mar 2006 12:19 pm

My opinion - until a seller accepts an offer and there is something exchanged to consumate the deal, there is no agreement. The price is only one of many terms of an offer, and a seller has every right to not accept any offer. For example, other things being equal, I would prefer to sell to somebody with whom I could complete the deal in-person. In general, I will not sell out of the US - I'm not an international broker, and don't have time to do it. Buyer and seller must agree to forms of payment and shipment. Those are all legitimate terms of sale. Of course, it's better to state those kind of terms up front, but don't let anybody buffalo you into making a deal you don't want to do. This time-stamp business is irrelevant, IMO, unless you say "first-come, first-served". Seller has the right to make the best deal in his or her interests.

Here's another problem with pressuring someone to complete a deal they are not comfortable with. Anybody selling anything to someone unknown must establish the credibility of potential buyers. None of us should get into micromanaging a seller or buyer's decision about this kind of thing. Long distance transactions are frought with problems - everybody should be happy with the transaction. This kind of thing is strictly caveat emptor.

That said, if a known forum member made me an unconditional offer for my stated price and all other terms were OK, I wouldn't refuse to deal because I underpriced the piece. If I didn't know anything about the value of something, I'd ask first. But I don't think we have a right to always insist on that, and I can think of situations where we shouldn't expect that. I don't think that buyers should think they have a right to take advantage of someone who is truly not knowledgable about values. It happens sometimes, but we don't have a right to that. IMO.

Keith Starmer · Post by **Keith Starmer** » 21 Mar 2006 2:12 pm

Legally a contract is an agreement between two or more parties in which an offer is made and accepted, and each party benefits. The agreement can be formal, informal, written, oral or just plain understood. Some contracts are required to be in writing in order to be enforced.

Cliff, you can do whatever you feel is the best way to sell your Fender. I would suspect that you would be happy to accept the asking price of $1300 to the first person who made contact to you. If you feel it is underpriced or worth more, then sell it to the highest offer. But, don't "auction" the Fender just to give more folks a chance to buy it. Remember what most people like about the SGF is that you don't have to deal with "flea-bay" and can buy from another member of the forum with little or no risk.

Mitch Druckman · Post by **Mitch Druckman** » 21 Mar 2006 2:59 pm

I was among the first people to contact Cliff. I would just like to say that if he will sell it to me, I will take it for his original asking price of $1300 plus shipping. I won't go into the ethics of his changing his mind, but I would really like this guitar.

Cliff Swanson · Post by **Cliff Swanson** » 21 Mar 2006 5:01 pm

The Stringmaster is sold. The person whose email landed in my inbox with the earliest time stamp and I have reached an agreement. I will gladly send a donation to the Forum.

I dropped a lot of time into thinking about this today, from a number of perspectives. Sometimes even though we do what we think is right and fair, stuff happens. So be it. I joined the Steel Guitar Forum a long time ago, and was an active contributor for a while, but not so much these days. My purpose in posting and asking for community opnion this morning was based on a sense of social consciousness and my desire to be a good citizen. Of course I knew that I couldn't possibly make everyone happy, and that wasn't really my intention. I simply asked for opinions and I figured I had some friendship equity here with some folks who might remember my name. Thanks to all for your honest answers. Except for one person who missed the point completely, and whose response lacks any humility whatsoever, I appreciate having had the opportunity to hear your thoughts. I try to take people and the things they say at face value, especially on the internet, until I see a pattern of dishonesty or abuse that speaks louder than the typed words. When someone publically admits an error, an honest mistake, and seeks council as a means of coming to grips with the issue, I personally choose to react and speak to them from a position of empathy and good will in giving them my honest opinion. Thanks to those of you who did so.

Cliff

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 21 Mar 2006 5:11 pm

I wish Fender had the good sense to see the market for a quality built, modern era Stringmaster so that we could avoid this awkward kind of stuff.

It's become a lower-priced version of the feeding frenzy that has occurred in the dobro world, where Tim Scheerhorn has a 52 month wait for his instruments-and the prices for used Scheerhorns have gone nuts.

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Mark

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 21 Mar 2006 5:19 pm

Except for one person who missed the point completely

Ok, well, I admit that Cliff Hanger wasn't one of my better jokes, but who do you think you're gonna get for for $1300.00?

George Carlin?

Cliff Swanson · Post by **Cliff Swanson** » 21 Mar 2006 5:36 pm

Actually, I thought Cliffhanger was pretty clever...and besides, yours wasn't the reply to which I was refering as having missed the point. You're off the hook, and free to polish your jokes anytime

.

Cliff

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 21 Mar 2006 5:46 pm

free to polish your jokes anytime

Oh no you don't--no Polish jokes!

PS--good job, Cliff.

Willis Vanderberg · Post by **Willis Vanderberg** » 21 Mar 2006 9:48 pm

I wish folks would stop using words like " Flea Bay ". I have had a high number of great transactions in the venue. There are a few bad apples in every barrell . They even show up on this forum occasionaly. But I don't see the humor in using derogatory deacriptions of anything.
I have had a couple of bad experiences with folks who are held in very high esteem in the steel world. I refuse to address them by anything other than their proper names.

Loni Specter · Post by **Loni Specter** » 21 Mar 2006 9:59 pm

Is it too late to offer $1,149.00 and a black Rajah with a small chip?