The Steel Guitar Forum

I am thinking of selling some of my old equipment (including a 1931 National Duolian, all original, green crinkle finish, no dents, loud as a cannon) and purchasing one of the new National Style 1 TriCones. Has anyone tried these? Opinions? As good or better than the originals? Does National provide a raised nut made of bone or must you use a nut extender? Any opinions appreciated.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 05 February 2000 at 05:38 AM.]</p></FONT>

Gerald, let me know about that Duolian if you do decide to sell, I know a few people.

As for the new tricones, they are brass, which does not (to my ears) sound anywhere near as good as german silver which is what all the old tricones except the style 97's and a few other odd ones were made of. If you primarily play lap style you can get an original style 1 squareneck for what you will pay for a new one (National will make squarenecks but they are Dobro style wood necks,not hollow)

Others have pointed this out also but since hittin' 2000 there has been a upsweep in prices that people are paying for pre-war anything so IMHO now is the time to nab the oldies.

Aloha Gerald, I guess when it comes to sound it's been hard for me to describe it in words...since we last talked I had a chance to try one of the newer Tricones. When I first purchased my 1930 Tricone I had a chance to compare it head to head with a bunch of single cones from the same era in a collector's home, and for me the Tricone had a far sweeter,smoother cleaner tone, but not as loud.
I was not able to do the same kind of side-by-side comparison as I was in a music store. The newer ones seem to exhibit very nice workmanship, the sound level is about the same, sound quality is very good with maybe more of an "edge"?? to it.Maybe not as mellow?.It would be great to compare them side by side under the same conditions.... Aloha, Isaac.

The Quality of the new tricones is excellent....but as stated, the tonal quality is a bit less full because the bodies are not German silver (65% copper 15% Zinc 20% Nickel) but Yellow Brass...no Nickel...I've found in tricones there is a difference, but if you want a round neck, my opinion is the cost difference overrides tone difference, but as far as Squarenecks...you can only get new WOODEN Squarenecks, and the price difference compared to an original Metalneck Square is slight and tone difference is great....but National will give you a wooden squareneck at the same price as a round...contact Marie at National...via their website, she's very helpful,
Aloha,
Mike

Thanks for all the responses so far. One concern I have is the gauge of strings needed to drive the resonators. Standard medium gauge acoustic strings should work fine for an A, G, E or D tunings. But can these guitars sound good in a C6 tuning where typically the lowest string is a .38 gauge?

Do the 1930's Nationals sound good in C6? I realize these instruments where invented before C6.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 05 February 2000 at 07:43 PM.]</p></FONT>

I tune my 28 style 2 squareneck C6 but w/ a Bass C so Low to High gauges are
60w 36w 27w 26w 18p 16p all the wound strings are Phospher bronze, but if I was to not use a bass C, I'd go w/ a 40-42w
Aloha,
Mike
PS...Never had any complaints about the sound in C6, just some grumbling from a "purist"

I tune to Bb6th: D,Bb,F,G,D,Bb (same as C6th, a whole step down) on my Weissenborn o with great results using a standard G-tuning set of Dobro strings. In this tuning, it's about the maximum tension the strings can take but it really drives the resonator. I tried low bass C6th but didn't like the extreme seperation between bass & treble voices when I needed to harmonize chords in the mid-range. So out of the standard G-tuning set I can get Bb6, E,A,G tunings

I have a new "round neck" tricone and a
1928 square neck style 2. Comparing the sound playing steel: the new tricone has slightly more volume, and better tone down low. The tone is consistent. The old tricone has a slightly more complex tone. It is also capable of producing extreme tonal differences depending how you play it. The low strings tend to sound "thuddy" (at least on the 4 I've heard).

Tuning: Low G (as recommended by the National
Guru - Bob Brozman). I've tried High G, Low G, and G6 and these guitars definitely sound better with Low G. The tuning seems to produce more sympathetic resonances.

And I second the price thing: you can still get an old square-neck for the price of a new one.

BTW: The neck is not hollow on the old ones. The wooden piece of the neck runs all the way down to the body joint inside the metal.

I have been playing a National Resophonic style 1 tricone for nearly three years now. I made a replacement bone nut which is the way to go for steel playing. Don't even consider one of those pot-metal extention nuts; the volume loss is considerable. I also replaced the bridge with one that is perfectly level as per Don Young's suggestion (since the new tricones are sold with Spanish necks, the bridges are cut to compensate for intonation requirements). National will do this for you but there is a charge. Don't forget (as I did) to ask for the original bridge saddle back in case you want to return the guitar to a Spanish set-up. The tone of my guitar has gotten better since I first started playing it. It does not sound like a 1929 National and I doubt it ever will. I rather like its tone which I would describe as fairly bright with exteremly good bass response. The original tricones sometimes had a rather muddy quality down on those lower strings; not all of them, mind you. The replacement wooden square necks National offers are, the last I heard, for their single cone guitars and have a different scale length. Is this still the case? The price of the guitars reflects the meticulous hand work that goes into the production of each unit; I think they are well worth the money.

My National catalog says that they will install the wood neck on any guitar except the Reso-lectric. There has been a squareneck polychrome on eBay recently. The seller has ben unable to unload it. Not surprising, I can't imagine why anyone would want a steelbody for lapstyle.

The main trouble I see with buying a new National is that the resale is difficult, so be sure it's what you want. I had a used style O ('96) that I bout for about $1300.00 and I was able to sell it a year later for $1750.00! but that was on eBay and two guy's got into a bidding war over it. Since then the winner has been attempting to sell it and hasn't been able to get that much. The Style O is the only new National I've seen with a halfway decent resale, the steelbodies are very difficult to sell without losing your shirt and the tricones don't retain a very high value. This is not because they are not great instuments, and very well made.

My point is that if your looking for a tricone to play Hawaiian on, an old one (if you shop carefully) will cost you less than a new tricone and will retain, and likey increase in value. Roundnecks of course are a very different story.

I had a chance to look at and play the National Resophonic square-neck polychrome single resonator guitar a few weeks ago.
The tone was what you'd expect from a single-resonator bisquit bridge (I think) steel-bodied guitar, mainly, no sustain and a real "trash-can" kind of tone. This is not the guitar for Hawaiian music!

-Bill