Replacement tuners for '36 National aluminum Hawaiian

David Weisenthal · Post by **David Weisenthal** » 19 Oct 2023 12:11 pm

Hey folks, I just scored a fairly nice one with replacement strip tuners that are not functional. I want to go back to the large individual units like it had originally. Anybody have a recommendation? Similar to this one....no actual pics taken yet.

It just arrived yesterday and luckily it survived the horrible packing job which consisted of a tiny box, no outer bag, no case, just butcher paper and some newspaper balls and packing peantus.

David Weisenthal · Post by **David Weisenthal** » 19 Oct 2023 12:27 pm

Haha, I just found this from 2018....

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... 25432f4afb

Any additional recommendations?

Noah Miller · Post by **Noah Miller** » 19 Oct 2023 12:41 pm

Some of these had strip tuners originally.

Of the individual tuners, National used a bunch of different ones. Without knowing the screw spacings, we can't say which - if any - modern replacements will fit without additional surgery.

David Weisenthal · Post by **David Weisenthal** » 19 Oct 2023 1:23 pm

Ok Noah, I will remove the strings and one of thost strip tuners. I've got dial calipers so I can do a precise measurement....

David Weisenthal · Post by **David Weisenthal** » 21 Oct 2023 2:18 pm

I measured the holes for the tuners yesterday, and it looks like my hole pattern is a little more obscure. My overall mounting hole distance for each tuner is close to .925", not the standard 1.000", and the distance between the closest screw hole and shaft hole is about .360" (hole furthest from shaft hole is .565"). see sketch. There are 4 extra holes added previously for those strip tuners I removed.

I found the 3x3 Golden age tuners from Stewmac is almost dead on, And I drew up a paper template on CAD of that tuner to lie over my holes. Looks good. The site says they were originally made by Kluson from the '30s to '70s so maybe that's what this old critter had originally?

I may have to do a little filing, as those tuner baseplates are a little too wide to fit completely on the headstock, but pretty minor.

Anybody have any thoughts for me on other possibilities? Anybody use these Golden age units on one of theirs?

Noah Miller · Post by **Noah Miller** » 21 Oct 2023 3:01 pm

I think yours had the same tuners as mine; they were Grovers, but nobody makes a drop-in replacement anymore including Grover.

I fitted mine with the same set of Stew-Mac Kluson copies, but only one hole lined up well enough to insert a screw. In practice, one screw is all you need to keep the tuner from rotating, so it works fine.

Chris Clem · Post by **Chris Clem** » 21 Oct 2023 4:34 pm

When ever you try to fit reissue tuners to a old guitar it is not always a perfect fit. The key to remember is if you need to grind or stretch a hole (oblong) you only want to that on the tuner plate and not on the guitar. A die grinder works best but a needle file will also work. The screw head will cover most of the area you grind away.

Also....these cast aluminum steels use a standard WOOD screw #3 x3/8" and not a machine screw.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 21 Oct 2023 5:05 pm

Would these be the original tuners? Are they Grovers?

Chris Clem · Post by **Chris Clem** » 21 Oct 2023 6:11 pm

I have serial # N 562 (very close to yours) It has the same original tuners that yours has. I don't believe they are Grovers.

Also David if the screws hole are stripped out fill them with a mix of either JB- Weld or Epoxy with some aluminiun file shaving mix with it, let dry 24 hrs before installing the screws.

David Weisenthal · Post by **David Weisenthal** » 21 Oct 2023 6:56 pm

Great information everybody. Chris, I'm pretty certain my screw holes are stripped and will need some filling so I will remember that. Noah, is that the prototype that has solid head stock? I ordered the golden age set. Lets see what happens...Its odd how 1936 used an A serial number and others had N. What years are yours?

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 22 Oct 2023 6:16 am

Chris Clem wrote:I have serial # N 562...

Chris, does it look like this?:

Noah Miller · Post by **Noah Miller** » 22 Oct 2023 8:03 am

Jack Hanson wrote:Would these be the original tuners? Are they Grovers?

Those are Waverlys, and they were one of the stock tuners that came on these.

David Weisenthal wrote:Noah, is that the prototype that has solid head stock? I ordered the golden age set. Lets see what happens...Its odd how 1936 used an A serial number and others had N. What years are yours?

Yes, that's the prototype. The N series are generally attributed to 1935, the A series to 1936. But as with everything National-Dobro, there are oddballs out there. I used to have one aluminum Hawaiian, probably a '36 based on features, with no letter prefix.

Chris Clem · Post by **Chris Clem** » 22 Oct 2023 8:08 am

Jack, Mine is a little different. I have the screw on input mounted on the side and a Vol & Tone control on the top. My case has gold inter-lining. Seems every time I see one of these they are always something different from one to the next.

David....N serial numbers =1935....A =1936

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 22 Oct 2023 10:28 am

Chris Clem wrote:Seems every time I see one of these they are always something different from one to the next.

Sure seems that way.

David Weisenthal · Post by **David Weisenthal** » 22 Oct 2023 2:16 pm

Guys, while I have everyone here, can you tell me about the metal saddle? Does it come out when you replace the strings ie, is it loose? Mine has a replacement wooden one, which I knew about when I bought it and was suspicious of, but it still sounds great and I can just make another out of tool steel. If any of you has a picture of your saddle removed, can you post? Here's a picture of that wooden saddle, which was beautifully made and fit in so nicely definitely a professional job and honestly it looks almost as old as the guitar. for some reason somebody replaced original with a wood one maybe for more string height? Those potentiometers are enormous! I've never seen any that large before, even on radios and transmitters from the 30s and 40s. My volume pot has a switch on it too. I was also pleased to see that the pickup height adjustment Works flawlessly after all this time.

Noah Miller · Post by **Noah Miller** » 22 Oct 2023 2:30 pm

They all had wooden saddles. Many were painted to blend in, but I have never seen one with an actual metal saddle.

A pot with a switch on it is a replacement part, though.

David Weisenthal · Post by **David Weisenthal** » 22 Oct 2023 3:51 pm

Wow, I'm amazed. Some of the internet photos I looked at really looked like a steel saddle, but now when I zoom in I see grooves cut, and maybe made from wood. Thanks for the reality check Noah!

Chris Clem · Post by **Chris Clem** » 22 Oct 2023 5:47 pm

The saddle on mine is brass with very small notches so that the strings sit flat across the top. The pots from 1930s guitars are pretty big (like an old 1/2 dollar size)

I agree with Noah if it has a switch it is probably not original...... Not even sure what a switch on a pot even looks like?

Chris Clem · Post by **Chris Clem** » 22 Oct 2023 6:01 pm

This is what your wiring should look like.

Noah Miller · Post by **Noah Miller** » 23 Oct 2023 5:46 am

Chris Clem wrote:This is what your wiring should look like.

Not exactly; this one has a newer cap and it is not wired like the originals. The cap was wired between the tone pot and ground, not between the pots.

Chris Clem · Post by **Chris Clem** » 23 Oct 2023 6:23 am

Noah,That's what mine looks like....lets see yours.

Noah Miller · Post by **Noah Miller** » 23 Oct 2023 7:53 am

The pot on the left is a replacement, but the rest of the wiring is original.

Here is another original one:

Chris Clem · Post by **Chris Clem** » 23 Oct 2023 8:16 am

On mine the cap between the pots is fine. The grounding points for a cap can go just about anywhere. Just about any point on an cast aluminum guitar is a ground.

Noah Miller · Post by **Noah Miller** » 23 Oct 2023 9:24 am

I'm not saying it won't work, just that it's not what an original setup looks like.

David Weisenthal · Post by **David Weisenthal** » 23 Oct 2023 11:11 am

Good info guys, I haven't scrutinized the wiring on mine yet. Chris the switch is like volume on radio, all the way CCW is off. I have no other lap steel where the saddle is anything other than a steel or aluminum edge..even the gibson and rick consoles I think... why would an all metal guitar have a wood saddle, it's just ironic.

works fine though. Tuners shipped today. Maybe I'll have by fri sat... how could they make these huge hollow cast things originally for $80 or something like that..