Good 4K video camera for recording gigs?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 7 Oct 2023 10:44 am

Am looking to buy a good 4K video camera to set up at front of house to record our shows. Most of them turn themselves off every 30 minutes and make you press "Record" again to keep going. (I understand that reduces their import taxes) but I can't have that happening. I need to be able to set it and forget it for at least 50 minutes. And of course the battery needs to last that long too but I could at least sometimes use an AC adaptor if one is available for the unit.

Any recommendations? TYIA.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Oct 2023 12:10 pm

Sony SV E10 is good bang for the buck.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 7 Oct 2023 12:25 pm

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Sony SV E10 is good bang for the buck.

Thanks Bob. I assume you mean the ZV E10. Can you confirm that it will run for over 30 min at a time? Also do you always run it with an AC adaptor or can you use batteries and, if so, how long will they last? Thanks!

Ron Funk · Post by **Ron Funk** » 7 Oct 2023 9:48 pm

'following this topic.....

Are there any that record directly onto a DVD?

Thanks for all help -

Ron

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 7 Oct 2023 10:28 pm

I would strongly recommend this camera based on a bandmate that had one, and what I know about it - it's designed specifically for bands to record themselves. It has a mic setup typical of the Zoom audio recorders, and does video at a number of standards. It works really good - try to keep it further from the bandstand, and not in line with a particular amp, or too close to a loud drummer (and I think that's all of 'em!).

Recording straight to DVD - DVD is a dying format - everything is small digital these days. These use micro-SD cards - much smaller than DVD, can be backed up very easily and quickly - much better than DVD. Or you can hook it up to your TV or monitor and have it play back through that.

https://zoomcorp.com/en/us/video-record ... -recorder/

Ron Funk · Post by **Ron Funk** » 8 Oct 2023 1:53 pm

Douglas -

Thanks for the Video referral.
I use my ZOOM H4N all the time for audio recording and it works great.

The primary reason I was asking about possibly capturing and saving video directly onto a DVD is that (many years ago),
I found it very time consuming to save video snippets recorded onto my Sony "Webbie" video camera's SD card into my Desk Top computer,
and then having to use 'Pinnacle Studio HD' (store-bought program),
to create a DVD for my archives.

Perhaps that process has greatly improved.

Thanks again -
{Christmas may come early to my house}

Ron

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 8 Oct 2023 2:04 pm

Doug, will it continue recording past 30 min as long as it still has power and room on the card to save the file?

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 8 Oct 2023 3:45 pm

Jim - I don't know details - just was impressed with the results when the bandmate used it a year or so ago for our gigs. A quick Google search turned this up:

"The Q2n-4K is powered using two AA batteries (included), offering up to 30 minutes of recording time in UHD 4K, one hour in 1080p, or two hours at 720p."

https://hotrodcameras.com/zoom-q2n-4k-h ... -recorder/#

I don't know if that is the limit for the batteries, the included micro-SD card, or the largest micro-SD card available. It can be powered by a USB power bank.

Here's a pretty good review of it based on a quick scan (didn't read it in detail):

https://doublebassblog.org/2020/05/zoom ... cians.html

I'm rather tempted to get one for my current band.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 8 Oct 2023 3:52 pm

Thanks Doug, yes I had read that and that's the limitation of the batteries (though longer if you shoot in 720p). So I can solve that ny using an AC adaptor but I still need to be sure it won't shut itself off every 30 minutes, as most video cameras do...

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 Oct 2023 5:18 pm

Jim,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlLVLKfVsFU

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 8 Oct 2023 5:43 pm

Bob Hoffnar wrote:Jim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlLVLKfVsFU

Thanks Bob. I had seen that video and was concerned about the overheating he described on all the Sony cameras at about 30 min., causing them to shut down. I take it you have not experienced that issue? Based on that video it looks like the Panasonic GH4 is a better choice. Thoughts?

Btw, I keep trying to like the Zoom 2n 4k because of the price point but almost all the reviews say the audio is great but the video quality mostly sucks, especially in lower light conditions...

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 Oct 2023 10:55 pm

I'm not experienced enough to make a valid judgement. The Sony was recommended by a couple guys I work with as the best in its class so I picked it up. I have a recording job next week so I'll see if it holds up. I expect that it will.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 9 Oct 2023 4:39 am

Jim Cohen wrote: Btw, I keep trying to like the Zoom 2n 4k ......

I had an old version of this, pre-4K (so it's fairly apples/oranges) and it was absolutely not pro quality. It was wonderful to record a rehearsal, set & forget, and post a clip and feel cool but it was totally home consumer-level.

Don Mogle · Post by **Don Mogle** » 9 Oct 2023 10:55 am

Closely following this thread. I'm interested in this topic too Jim

Can anyone tell me if any of the recommended cameras for church live feeds also record? Reference YouTube videos on the subject. I will try to do more research...

Karlis Abolins · Post by **Karlis Abolins** » 9 Oct 2023 12:26 pm

I found this topic interesting so I did a little research. I found this website that list recording time by camera (without specifying format) https://www.recordinglimits.com/
Most of the cameras in the list have a 30 minute limit. The limit was apparently mandated by the EU to prevent people from going to a movie theater and recording the movie for illegal sales. That issue aside, some of the more recent cameras no longer have the limit. A significant number of the cameras which don't have the limits are high end, expensive units. There are a few that are reasonable. The Panasonic LUMIX FZ2500 sells for around $900. I didn't look at all of them but I think there are some possibilities for recording concert footage at 4k.

Good luck!

Karlis

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Oct 2023 4:57 pm

Thanks, Karlis. Very helpful. Got me seriously looking at the FZ2500; except there's no AC adapter and doesn't look like the batteries last very long. Solution seems to be some kind of external battery adapter plus a USB power bank, both of which add bulk and weight and are less convenient for just setting the camera up on a tripod to record a show. Now ya gotta find a place for the peripherals. But maybe that's the best that can be done. Surprisingly the camera gets great reviews for video but only mediocre ratings for still shots. (But my priority is video anyway)

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 10 Oct 2023 4:34 am

I didn't see anyone mention a GoPro, but they are capable of recording for longer than 30 minutes if you can keep it somewhat cool. Also, the recording quality is pretty amazing with a wide range of aspects. For about $400, I purchased one and got a lot of accessories to accommodate numerous mounting setups, from wearing around my chest or on a hat brim to mounting on a stand.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 17 Oct 2023 8:21 pm

Mike, do you think they'd work well recording from the back of say a 500 seat theater to the stage? I've only seen them in close-up applications.
Thanks
Jim

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 17 Oct 2023 9:06 pm

Jim Cohen wrote:Mike, do you think they'd work well recording from the back of say a 500 seat theater to the stage? I've only seen them in close-up applications.
Thanks
Jim

You'll need something with a nice optical zoom... Gopro is not that. I've been very happy with Canon cameras... here's their single prosumer product:

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/vixia- ... k&type=New

Just barely in your budget of 1k$. You'll need big fast SD cards, tripod, mic etc... obviously easy to blow bux here. That rig I used for the Dallas non-pedal room was about 3500$ with all the goodies... I've used it from the back of an auditorium with great results. Of course it has phantom XLR dual mic inputs etc... worth it if your main goal is music or audio oriented.

Here's a video I recorded from the back of a 500-seat auditorium... the audio is direct from the board into those XLR's.

https://youtu.be/X22fAXpaSfw?si=XvZXB1I529vcC9q4&t=89

Mark Dershaw · Post by **Mark Dershaw** » 18 Oct 2023 12:02 pm

From my experience, DSLR cameras are just not built for long form video. They capture superior imagery and you get the flexibility of interchangeable lenses but they are not the best choice for capturing entire shows. It seems like camcorders are kind of old fashion now, but they will typically run a really long time. No overheating. You just have to be sure you get one that has external inputs for audio. Plenty of megapixels for low light situations. You might consider going used and picking up a pro-sumer model. There are a lot of camera junkies out there that unload perfectly good equipment just so they can get the latest and greatest model. Here's the last thing to think about. Editing. Editing video is probably the most processor draining thing you can ask a computer to do. Before you start shooting 4K or even high def, make sure you have the fire power on the back end to handle the video files. It's all very daunting. I finally went the simple route. I've captured hours of band footage on my cellphone. Nothing fancy and it looks and sounds pretty good. Easy to edit.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 18 Oct 2023 12:08 pm

Stephen Cowell wrote:Here's a video I recorded from the back of a 500-seat auditorium... the audio is direct from the board into those XLR's.

https://youtu.be/X22fAXpaSfw?si=XvZXB1I529vcC9q4&t=89

Thanks, Stephen. We'd need it to be sharper than that, say, sharp enough to read the logo on the headstock of the guitar. But we don't need it to be zoomed in quite that close, so maybe we'd get there...?

Marshall Woodall · Post by **Marshall Woodall** » 18 Oct 2023 2:33 pm

Lots of good comments and suggestions here Jim. If you are looking for clarity at a distance you are going to need a real lens with decent glass and maybe a good tripod. I think it is always going to be a compromise to lock off a camera for an hour to shoot the band at a distance. Mike's Gopro idea seems to be the way to go. They are cheap enough to get 2 or 3 (or more)and you could mount them strategically on the stage to get some closeup shots to possibly cut together with that wide shot. This involves a little work but if you can figure out how to play pedal steel I think you could probably handle it. Check out Davinci Resolve as a free video editor for this kind of stuff.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 19 Oct 2023 10:58 am

Jim Cohen wrote:
Stephen Cowell wrote:Here's a video I recorded from the back of a 500-seat auditorium... the audio is direct from the board into those XLR's.

https://youtu.be/X22fAXpaSfw?si=XvZXB1I529vcC9q4&t=89
Thanks, Stephen. We'd need it to be sharper than that, say, sharp enough to read the logo on the headstock of the guitar. But we don't need it to be zoomed in quite that close, so maybe we'd get there...?

That camera is six years old.... probably shooting 1080p. The equivalent Canon is about the same price, 2700$, and does 4K. The XLR phantom inputs are very nice to have... and there's no getting around optical zoom.