The Steel Guitar Forum

Just watched a very interesting YT vid, Try This Before Buying New Pickups | Cheap & Easy Mod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if1NrMvQjv4&t=274s

Mainly the vid is about installing capacitors in parallel to get the tone you want. The trick is finding the desired capacitor.

The interesting part of the vid is the selector box built by the gentleman who made the vid. He built it as a tool, but a lot of people who see it think of it as a pedal of sorts.

This cannot be a difficult thing to build. When I was a mechanic in the days before "on-board diagnosis" of fuel injection and motor management systems, I built something similar to help diagnose various sensors.

Pretty cheap to build too ... just a selector switch and some capacitors. In the comments section, somebody suggested that a kit of something similar had be built years ago.

Is there anybody here who could help come up with a schematic ... and maybe a how to thread?

It's shunting a bit of treble to ground, same as the tone control on a conventional guitar. If you find the right value cap but the effect is too strong, you can wire a resistor in parallel to mitigate (or even a trim pot). If there's too much bass, you can wire the cap in series with the pickup instead of parallel.

All these are very common mods in the guitar world.

Here are instructions for DIY, along with an explanation of how it's the same as using a longer cable. https://www.premierguitar.com/diy/mod-g ... eet-switch

Mike Auman wrote:Here are instructions for DIY, along with an explanation of how it's the same as using a longer cable. https://www.premierguitar.com/diy/mod-g ... eet-switch

Thank you Mike. I think what you have shared is a simplified version of what the person who made the above vid has built. Looks like it would make a great one-at-a-time cap. tester.

I've been doing some digging around trying to learn more about this switch box. It turns out that the concept isn't new and appeared in the past as the Varitone switch seen on some Gibson guitars (B.B King Lucille model) and the 1959 Gibson GA-80T Varitone amp. I believe that it is also known as a "Notch Filter". I haven't seen one on Pedal or Lap Steel yet ... but that doesn't mean that there aren't some out there.

There are a number of commercially sold Varitone boxes and Notch filters on the market, and even a number of kits. C.B. Gitty sells one that is an "active" version. Hopefully somebody who knows what the difference between "active" and "passive" would be willing tell us, because I sure don't. : https://www.cbgitty.com/tone-box/tone-d ... est-sound/

If anyone is interested, here is some of the stuff I found on the internet:

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/varitone-box.409830/

https://www.premierguitar.com/pro-advic ... d-extended

https://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/ind ... ic=23927.0

A number of these sites include a component list as well as a schematic and a video demonstration.

There are also a number of vids to be heard on YouTube.

Some of the folks who sell these things say that they are popular with lap steel players. If you have one, or tried one ... could you post opinions below?


It looks to me that building one into a guitar, lap steel or even an amp would be pretty simple. For this purpose, there are a large number of schematics to be found doing a search of the internet.

I think it would be more useful to me as a hand operated device rather than a stomp box. In my looking around, I found some young feller made one he could mount onto his belt

The gentleman who posted that YT vid has said he's going to do a YT vid about building his version. If/when he does, I'll be sure to pass it on.


ADDENDUM:

I have found a vid which shows how to install the capacitors, resistors and, some say optional, choke onto a selector switch. Caps used in video are:
0.003uf, 0.01uf, 0.03uf, 0.022uf, 0.047uf. YMMV. You also need 10K resistors to eliminate pop when changing settings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRtOal2d278

Well, the young gent who posted the first vid posted the build vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWRD5PawPw0

He sells the completed box AND the schematic. The caps he uses are listed on the schematic. He does not install resistors or choke. He builds in a bypass switch, a large number of builders just leave one selector position open (i.e. no cap) and they state by doing so there is "no tone suck" in that position.

As I learned over the past couple days, this is a somewhat simplified Varitone, Notch filter, Tone styler or Decade switch. The difference seems to be whether a choke is wired into the circuit.


I am interested in building at least one of these as a test box. Unless I find something better, I will be using one of the schematics below, maybe with a couple changes. I don't know about 12 capacitors. I might be wrong but that kinda strikes me as cutting the loaf of bread too thin. Whatever the number of caps I use, I think I would include a choke having a bypass switch.

If this device really alters (sweetens) the tone significantly, I just might like to build one into the lap steel I will be building as soon as my fingers get fixed. If only for cool factor.

Since I can't play, I might as well mess around. After reading some more, thinking a bit, and fooling round on paper, I came up with a Varitone, Notch filter, Tone styler or Decade Box using a 12 position switch having 11 caps and 1 bypass position. It also has a choke and a choke bypass switch.
The only things I left out is an input/output reverse switch and a hi/lo circuit and switch. I am still reading about these and am not sure they are necessary. Easy to add in if I think I want them.

I distilled down the schematics I found on the internet. I think I got it correct.








SO WHAT DOES THIS THING DO ANYWAY

From what I read it does NOT bleed off highs or lows to ground. Rather, it shifts a frequencies high spot.

Here is the best quote I could find on the subject. Quote from REVERB https://reverb.com/news/the-varitone-ci ... son-es-345:

What the Varitone Circuit Doesn't Do

The Varitone circuit is not a compressor. It would also be false to label it as "just another tone knob" or "something like a wah pedal." It is a switch, not a potentiometer. Unlike the tone pot in your guitar or your wah pedal, which roll off higher frequencies in a progressive way, the Varitone switch jumps to predefined frequency scoops, preserving the lows and highs on either side of that scoop.

Sadly, many vintage Gibson ES-345 specimens have had their original Varitone circuits ripped out due to the persistent gospel that it "sucks out the tone." END QUOTE


BTW: Back in the late 19 and 50's Gibson started installing the Varitone on 3 models of their hollow body electrics and in an amp. And since that time there has been a big discussion about whether this device "sucked tone" or not. In my reading I found an observation that pretty well sums up arguments about this switch, and perhaps many other arguments on the internet.

Best answer to the question, “Do Varitone devices suck tone?”

“You will not get an actual answer, based on facts, to your question (about "tone suck"). There are going to be 20 people saying that, in their experience, the varitones suck tone. Then 20 people with degrees in electrical engineering will tell you that the varitone CANNOT affect tone. This question has been a hot button in the 3x5 world for years.”

I think he left out the 20 people who have neither the experience nor the degree, but they have their OPINION ... which is based on nothing at all.

Ohhhh, now I see. It changes your tone, but it does not affect your tone. The same...but different.

I'm glad we got that clarified.

Donny Hinson wrote:Ohhhh, now I see. It changes your tone, but it does not affect your tone. The same...but different.

I'm glad we got that clarified.

You are 100% correct.

As stated, it changes the tone by shifting the high frequency, but it preserves the highs and lows in that nothing gets "bled to ground".

Because capacitors shift the spike in the tone toward the low side, I suppose it could be said that lows are diminished by the width of "spike" being shifted. This should clear up the muddiness in pickups.

Pickups can be pricey. If adding a capacitor can change one that doesn't give you the tone you'd like into a tone you do ... and save you a bunch of money, I somehow don't see the harm. As a tool, this device gives someone 11 chances to find out if a capacitor fill fix his problem, before he spends a bunch of money. Further, if said pickup already produces a good tone ... but if someone would like to fool around with 11 additional tone possibilities, I can't see the harm in that either.