Williams 400 (how easy to change the copedent/set up)

Christopher Hillman · Post by **Christopher Hillman** » 11 Sep 2023 12:54 pm

I was hoping someone could tell me how easy it might be to change the setup of a Williams 400. I'm thinking of buying a second hand one but I'm not sure if the way the rods lock in to the bell-cranks might mean I'd have to make new lengths of rod? (say if you want to change the E levers from left to right knee) or could you interchange them? Has anyone done this before on a 400? On my current steel the rods are straight with allen keys so could be used on any pedal/knee... maybe its the same with the Williams though?
Any info on the Williams 400 would be welcome too. I've only owned a few steels but I have rebuilt an old sho~bud so not scared off by a bit of work.

Cheers
Chris

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 11 Sep 2023 1:21 pm

Hey Chris. Rod lengths are specific, cut to length for the cross shaft position. If you are simply swapping two pulls for two pulls, then all you have to do is unhook the rod (which, on my 700 series doesn't just hook into the bellcrank slot -- it actually inserts into a slight enlargement at the base of the slot), loosen & slide the bellcrank to line up with the finger and hook the rod back up.
Like I said, this would be if you were simply swapping two pulls for two pulls. But it shouldn't be difficult to get hold of the proper rod if you needed an additional one or two.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 11 Sep 2023 1:54 pm

I changed over a 600 from Emmons to Day, and it was one of the easiest guitars I ever worked on. I imagine, looking at your picture, that the 400 is pretty similar to the 600. As Jon said, if you are swapping pedals with 2 pulls on each, you won't need parts. You may have to adjust the pedal/lever travels a tiny bit (I didn't need to}. When you move rods to another pedal, make sure you put the rod in the same bellcrank slot and changer hole. That should be all you need.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 11 Sep 2023 3:54 pm

the Williams site has an order form for new pulls if needed, with instructions for how to measure the rod length (it is easy, I've done it)....Williams really figured it out...
$35 for the whole pull train, bell crank, rod, and holding clip.

Christopher Hillman · Post by **Christopher Hillman** » 11 Sep 2023 3:55 pm

Jon Light wrote:Hey Chris. Rod lengths are specific, cut to length for the cross shaft position. If you are simply swapping two pulls for two pulls, then all you have to do is unhook the rod (which, on my 700 series doesn't just hook into the bellcrank slot -- it actually inserts into a slight enlargement at the base of the slot), loosen & slide the bellcrank to line up with the finger and hook the rod back up.
Like I said, this would be if you were simply swapping two pulls for two pulls. But it shouldn't be difficult to get hold of the proper rod if you needed an additional one or two.

Thanks Jon! Yeah I can't remember the whole set up for this steel. I know it doesnt have a C pedal which is what I would want to change to start with. I guess its just tracking the rod down if I need to make more and the thread size to die it.
The sho~bud I have has a similar L shape rod idea and I found this hard to bend/die a thread onto it to get it right and have enough movement or what sometimes happens and the nylon tuner fly off if I've made it too short ha!

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 11 Sep 2023 4:22 pm

If I'm having to fabricate pull rods, by far my favorite ones are straight-thru-a-locking-gizmo types such as old MSA, Emmons p/p, Bud 2 hole swivels etc.

I'm all too aware of the miscalculated length issue when cutting & bending a new rod. If there is another rod at that cross shaft I'll pull it out so as to fabricate a more exact facsimile rather than just suspending the blank near the old one and marking the cutoff point. Because it's always wrong. Always.

I forgot to mention -- if the 400 series is the same as my 700, you will also need the little spring clip to hold the rod hook in the crank. Another challenge in making the rod is bending a tight eneough L. Too big a radius can create problems.

I don't know if overseas commerce is a big pain but I'd probably consider it worth inventorying exactly what you need, determining exactly the cross shaft positions, and buying rods, nylon nuts, cranks and retaining clips from Williams.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 11 Sep 2023 8:52 pm

If just changing places between 2 pedals or 2 knee levers.

The easy way, Isolate the pull rods on each pedal or lever to be moved. Tape a piece of file card to each pull rod to be moved. Example LKR to RKR, Write the Changer hole and Bell Crank hole of the LKR on RKR tag. And RKR on the LKR, Then remove the rods. Move the Bell Cranks in line with Changer pulls, And place the pull rods by your notes on tag of each rod, In Changer and Bell Crank holes.

If you end up making new pull rods for the guitar, If you are making 1 or 12 rods make a simple bending jig. Take a piece of heavy steel, Like 3/4" X 2" X 3", Drill the hole to the depth of the L bend on the rod. Insert the rod in the hole and with a hammer strike the rod close to plate. Bend the rod and hammer the rod to a perfect L. I have seen problems with rods dragging on bell cranks and other rods because of big looping L's in them.

Good Luck getting the guitar set up, Happy steelin

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 12 Sep 2023 12:34 am

I have ordered parts from Williams and I don't recall the shipping being a major cost. Customer service is good.

Christopher Hillman · Post by **Christopher Hillman** » 12 Sep 2023 8:09 am

Ian Rae wrote:I have ordered parts from Williams and I don't recall the shipping being a major cost. Customer service is good.

Hi Ian, do you still have your Excel as well? Just wondering how you find swapping between them both. I have a Superb U-12 too.

Christopher Hillman · Post by **Christopher Hillman** » 12 Sep 2023 8:09 am

Ian Rae wrote:I have ordered parts from Williams and I don't recall the shipping being a major cost. Customer service is good.

Hi Ian, do you still have your Excel as well? Just wondering how you find swapping between them both. I have a Superb U-12 too.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 12 Sep 2023 8:44 am

Williams customer service is one of the best. Wish I still had my Williams.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 12 Sep 2023 10:05 am

Chris, I don't find any problem because they're very different! That is to say I don't rely on there being any similarities. But then I'm used to swapping between trombones or basses, so it's just another swap really.
I mainly use the Excel for gigs as it's lighter and more weatherproof and the long scale helps me cut through the band if necessary. The Williams mostly stays set up at home sounding pretty and looking gorgeous

Christopher Hillman · Post by **Christopher Hillman** » 12 Sep 2023 12:24 pm

Ian Rae wrote:Chris, I don't find any problem because they're very different! That is to say I don't rely on there being any similarities. But then I'm used to swapping between trombones or basses, so it's just another swap really.
I mainly use the Excel for gigs as it's lighter and more weatherproof and the long scale helps me cut through the band if necessary. The Williams mostly stays set up at home sounding pretty and looking gorgeous

I'm with you and can understand that. I use my Excel constantly as its my main Steel. You have the 25" 1/2 scale as well then? How do you find the G# strings for breakage? I have to use George L's Reinforced (which I'm running out of) or they blow before getting up to pitch/first press of the B pedal.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 12 Sep 2023 2:12 pm

The 3rd string is a worry which Mitsuo admits he shares! I find that the GHS strings which are the original fitment usually hold if I'm very careful with the wrap and don't try to get up to pitch too quickly. Once I get one installed it lasts indefinitely - I've never broken one while playing and I only change it when it starts to sound tinny. The changer design seems to be quite kind to strings as the bend is minimal.