U12 players question - getting the C6th pedal 4

[Ivan Funk]

I'm sure this has been discussed but I can't find it in a search:
On a U12 if you wanted to get the traditional C6th pedal 4 that raises strings 4 and 8 a whole step A to B, (that, if put on a U12 would raise strings 6 and 10 a whole step) would you put it in pedal 4 location and move the existing pedals 4,5,6,7 over to the right one space (as in a traditional C6th setup) or would would put it on a knee lever? Or other ideas?

Here's my current setup:

[Raybob Bowman]

It's a lot of work but you can shift your pedals to the right to add pedal to left of E9 pedals and put the C6 P4 change there. Then stepping on that pedal along with 1st "E9" pedal will give the change that your current P7 gives, the five chord. Either eliminate your P7 or move the F# change of your pedal 3 to a vertical lever to make room for moving pedals.

[Ivan Funk]

Very cool Raybob. Thanks.
I like that idea. Its not too hard to move stuff around on this GFI U12.

[Andrew Frost]

You might want to check out Cowboy Eddie's tuning, I think he has that P4 set up on Pedal zero as Raybob described. At least the string 6 part. Good place to have it..

[Ivan Funk]

Thanks Andrew. I'll look into that.
I haven't decided weather to (as Raybob put it well) "either eliminate P7 or move the F# change of pedal 3 to a vertical lever to make room for moving pedals."
I'll look up Cowboy Eddie's tuning and see if that helps me decide.

[J D Sauser]

Many C6th players traded that change for soething else or took it just off and went to 7 pedals, specially on Universals where the player is expected to play thru all the pedals without repositioning himself.
On all my 8&5 S12 universals I kept it to the left of my BE A-pedal… like a zerp-pedal. So it was “out of the way” and also would create a nice “big” 7th chord with the A-pedal.
I now play a 12-string C6th on which I did not have that change anymore because I chose to have a B on top of the D as a first string (a bit like Maurice Anderson’s S12 non-pedal tuning), but added it back last year to the far right, right of “P8”, just pulling the higher A (one string only) because I like the (moving) sound of it snapping up in the chord.

I don’t know that this would be helpful to you ‘though… JD.

[Jerry Overstreet]

I like the boo wah pedal in the 4th pedal position where you have it. I've always had it there on my D10s and Uni 12s and 14s.

I would suggest adding a left acting knee lever to the right of your LKR.... this would be like a LKL for the C neck of a D10.

I don't find much use for the 8th string whole tone raise, but it's a great addition to the 4th string.

I have it on the CLKL or equivalent postion on Universal raising 4 a whole tone. Having it on a knee like that lets you use it with any of the 4 thru 7 pedals and it works with any or all of them not just for the sweet maj7.

In addition, I have a half stop at the half tone [Bb on the C6th tuning] but only on 4, not 8.

[Ivan Funk]

Thanks JD.
Helpful info yes.
I never had D10 with a full C6th with 8 pedals so I don't know what that pedal sounds like. I only have had U12s and S10s.

On my SD10 I did add a pedal "zero" that only raises the 6th string a whole tone. (thanks to Andrews suggestions) I like having that one string pull, especially next to the A pedal.
But on my U12 I have the standard 7 pedals and I don't know if I really need the traditional "pedal 4" or not.
I like having pedal 7 next to pedal 6 so I'll leave that is it is. I'm researching more the traditional use of pedal 4 next to pedal 5. I have to sit at the steel and simulate those changes somehow to see if I want it. I understand that many people got rid of it.
Or find someone with D10 I can try out to see what's going on. Or get a D10!

[Susan Alcorn]

For my two A to B's, I put them on a knee lever (LKL) with a half-stop at Bb. On the LKR, I lower the pitch on the Bottom A (9th string for me) down to G with a half-stop at Ab. That way I can use this change with all the pedals, and for raising and lower those A's, it's all on the left knee.

[Ivan Funk]

Thanks Susan.
Are those levers a center cluster on a your D10/11?
Or E9 levers that do double duty?

On my U12 I have all those moves on string 6 G# (string 4 A on C6th) but not the bottom G# (or bottom A).
I might add a second LKR to get one or the other of those changes.

My string 6 can do F#/G/G#/A/A#
I just realized I changed that since my first post with the chart. I'll post the updated chart here.

On a related note - I've only ever had S10's and U12's.
My first D10 ever is arriving later this week so I'll have the 8 pedal reference point to be able to understand what if anything I'd want to add to the U12.
I've never even played a D10.

[Susan Alcorn]

Here is the copedent for my S12. It is not a universal tuning. The changes for the 4th and (my) 9th are on the left knee levers.

[Ivan Funk]

Oh I see.
Wild it's sort of like a C6th tuning with added Ds in there?
I can see the potential but I haven't had enough coffee to fully grasp it.

[David Wisson]

I have my pedal 4 on the 8th pedal and my 5th string B to Bb on a right knee forward moving lever. Dave

[Susan Alcorn]

Ivan, it is a lot like a C6th with a couple added S strings because that's exactly what it is. I, like probably everyone else, have modified some of the pedals and knee levers to suit my own purposes.

[Ian Rae]

It's not just a question of positioning a pedal - it needs hooking up. On a "standard" B6/E9 U12 like mine, even without P4 you need three raises on the 6th string G# (equivalent to 4th string A on the C6) - for the B pedal, the CKR lever and P7.

As far as I can find out, only Excels have more than three raises - thus I have a P4 on my Excel but not on my Williams. My eight Excel pedals run as follows:-

C, B, A, P5, P7, P4, depends, P8

(P6 is on a lever, if you're wondering)