The Steel Guitar Forum

but frequently uses secondary dominants

I'm not much of a classic country type but it's fairly hard to avoid learning pedal steel. I'm just wondering if there is a reason for it.

A quick browse through the Hank Williams repertoire (for example) will show that your premise is simply not true.

I use a lot of minor chords when I write tab for country songs.
Erv

Well, there's "Three Chords and the Truth". But yeah, there's Hank, Patsy Cline, Marty Robbins, and so many more where it's not just 1-4-5. If you consider bluegrass 'classic country', I think that opens things up even more, since a significant amount of mountain music has a minor-modal sound.

I think there are actually multiple issues here - various uses of minor chords in a song and songs with an actual minor key center. I think minor key songs in most popular genres are the minority. I see country music as fairly typical in that regard, but there are plenty of well known examples. More here - https://www.tdpri.com/threads/country-s ... ey.276557/ - and there are lots more examples beyond these.

As far as use of minor chords in a major key center song, there are various issues there. In classic jazz and much popular music, minor or min7 chords and extensions are frequently used as passing chords. A lot of classic pop music re-harmonized simpler songs (including plenty of country songs) in a more jazz/pop-inflected way - consider various versions of I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry by BJ Thomas and others. And lots more. More sophisticated classic country (think Patsy Cline, Ray Price, Willie Nelson, Jim Reeves, and many others) used passing chords like this quite a bit. Crazy may be the classic example, but there are lots more.

And yet other classic country just used minor chords in a major key center song as an integral part of the harmonization of the melody. El Paso and Big Iron by Marty Robbins are just a couple of many, many examples.

So I also disagree with your premise. I often find myself using minor chords in many positions when playing steel on country material. Or guitar.

Matt Kidney wrote:but frequently uses secondary dominants

I'm not much of a classic country type but it's fairly hard to avoid learning pedal steel. I'm just wondering if there is a reason for it.

Untrue, but I find this post to be only a minor irritation for me.

For many forms of music, major chords connote happy and upbeat feelings, and minor chords connote the sad and foreboding feelings.

But country music seems mostly dominated by major chords, so the sad and foreboding feelings are often generated by the lyrics.

Minor seventh chords are said to be the saddest chord form, while the G-major chord is said to be the “happiest” chord. That’s why its used most often in casinos for the audio on slot machines…feel good music!

Because great classic country writers didn’t need minor chords.

Seriously, there’s more than just the lyric that can make otherwise happy sounding chord progressions sound pathetically sad. “Your Cheating Heart”, “Oh Lonesome Me”, “He Stopped Loving Her Today”, “When I Call Your Name” —- I mean jeez…if those songs had minor chords in them they would have caused mass suicide.

Fred Treece wrote:...Seriously, there’s more than just the lyric that can make otherwise happy sounding chord progressions sound pathetically sad. “Your Cheating Heart”, “Oh Lonesome Me”, “He Stopped Loving Her Today”, “When I Call Your Name” —- I mean jeez…if those songs had minor chords in them they would have caused mass suicide.

Good one, Fred!

I tried to think of a happy, cheerful song that was written in a minor key, but I couldn't come up with single one? There have been, of course, some very famous country songs written in minors. Here's a dozen or so that I've played throughout the years, in pretty much (chronological) order:

Blue Prairie
Kaw Liga
Ghost Riders In The Sky
Sixteen Tons
Blackjack County Chain
Wichita Lineman
The Devil Went Down To Georgia
Jolene
Somebody's Knockin'
I Loved Them Every One
A Country Boy Can Survive
Thinkin' Thing
Thunder Rolls

Hmm
I was specifically thinking of songs in major keys, and maybe it's just the songs the guys I meet up with introduce me to where there seems to be 2 major and 3 major chords being used, Borrowed Angel, Tennessee Waltz come to mind.

Classic Country from the 40’s-60’s grew out of American Folk, Gospel, Swing, and Blues. For every minor-mode song in any of those traditions, there are 10 that would not even have a minor chord in them, and the melodies would be pretty straight diatonic or pentatonic. If you are asking why that is, a music historian might have a better answer, but my peanut gallery perspective on it is that a country song is about telling a story with a certain degree of emotional wallop that the average unsophisticated listener can appreciate, sing along with, and dance to. It is not necessarily meant to be a trip through the land of rhythmic and harmonic complexity, just like the traditions that comprise the country music wellspring were not. It is a testament to the power of Country music and the brilliance of its writers that so much musical and lyrical expression can be wrung out of basic diatonic structures and rhyme schemes.

Playing Tennessee Waltz without any minor chords isn’t a beautiful thing.

Ken Pippus wrote:Playing Tennessee Waltz without any minor chords isn’t a beautiful thing.

The song as written has no minor chords, and not even the most popular version (by Patti Page) had any minor chords in the arrangement. But I, too, will throw in a 2m and 4m, and even a diminished or two sometimes when I’m playing it.

Each to his own.

I try to stay away from those demented chords though.
Erv

Ken Pippus wrote:Playing Tennessee Waltz without any minor chords isn’t a beautiful thing.

Beg to differ.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L_PRWKS1his
Plus, I like the way she pronounces the word “lost”.

If you notice when going to clubs and bars where country music is played there's a sign out front that says "NO MINORS ALLOWED!"

Garry Vanderlinde wrote:If you notice when going to clubs and bars where country music is played there's a sign out front that says "NO MINORS ALLOWED!"

Garry Vanderlinde wrote:If you notice when going to clubs and bars where country music is played there's a sign out front that says "NO MINORS ALLOWED!"

You can THINK them, but you can't SING them. They misspelled "aloud".

When I took guitar lessons, in the late 40's (yes I know I'm old) I was only taught major and 7th chords. No minors, diminished, etc - these were "orchestra chords" and not needed for country.

Obviously, a lot has changed over the years, but that was how it was 'back them".

Matt Kidney wrote:but frequently uses secondary dominants

I'm not much of a classic country type but it's fairly hard to avoid learning pedal steel. I'm just wondering if there is a reason for it.

I think it is because the one, four and five major triads contain every note in the major scale making so it can harmonize most basic melodies. The dominant chords act as the most basic form passing tones. The b7 added to the one chord also can act as a harmonization to a more blues influenced melody along with being a transition to the four chord.

If you are looking for a more historical reason if someone is singing a melody they can find a way to accompany themselves with those three basic chords without much effort. Also country music seems to come from European diatonic based melodies giving us the basic one, four and five chords. Then it was heavily influenced by blues which makes the dominant seventh an big part of the harmonic structure.

Look what Leon Russel had done (I don't know if he came up first with the idea) with this Hank Williams song. You'll find augmented and minor chords and a key change:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSvlpM2twMk

Reading this thread, I can’t help but think of the phrase “There is beauty in simplicity.” Music is about creating something that sounds beautiful and you really don’t need big fancy chords to accomplish that.

To make music beautiful sometimes you need those "big fancy chords".
They add richness to the song and help fill it out.
Erv

Great comments about the mood of major and minor chords.
One time I said to Buddy that a Maj7 chord was happy and uplifting and he replied that there is a lot of tension with one.

Chris Templeton wrote:Great comments about the mood of major and minor chords.
One time I said to Buddy that a Maj7 chord was happy and uplifting and he replied that there is a lot of tension with one.

in his Basic C6 course Buddy states:
"The C6 and CMaj7 chords are somewhat harsh sounding compared to the mellow texture of the dominant 7 (C7)."

can't say I agree with that!

Interesting. "Somewhat harsh sounding".