About to order my first PSG. Do you approve of my choice?

[Clay Gillespie]

I plan to order a Justice S10 3x4 basic model. I spoke with Ron, who was very kind and helpful. He did suggest the arm rest option.

Background info:
I'm mid 60s and no longer interested in becoming a full time player.
Though I'm not a great musician, I've played guitar, slide, and keyboards for decades and I know classical & jazz music theory.
Based on my background, I've got a couple of questions for you experienced players.
1. Is a 3x4 E9 PSG sufficient to keep me happy playing pop, country, and rock? (I don't play much jazz anymore).
2. Is there another PSG to consider that meets or exceeds the Justice S10 in that price range?
3. The current turn-around time for the Justice S10 is 15 weeks. Is this normal for in-demand builders?
4. Should I consider the height of a volume pedal when measuring the necessary height of the PSG? (Seems obvious)
5. Anything else I should consider?

Thanks so much. I'm excited to get started, but don't want to be hasty and get a model that won't last me too long.
Clay

[Chris Brooks]

Brief reply, Clay--and welcome to the world of PSG.

3 and 4 is fine. And you can add more later if you want. Yes, theory will definitely help you out.

Think of basic "positions" on steel as you do on 6 string: 3rd fret G, 6th fret G, and 10th fret G, for example.

I play an SD 12 and like the armrest.

About the volume pedal question? I'd ask the builders.

15 weeks is very reasonable for your order. Hey: have fun!

[Joe Krumel]

Hi Clay. Sounds like you picked a fine guitar to get your feet wet. 3×4 and youtube,coupled with loop to learn app will keep you busy for 3 lifetimes! Ha! I have old goodrich vol pedals and they are fine,only I wish they were low profile. Still no big deal. Try Bob's easy tuning guide here on forum and just have some fun and don't be in a hurry. Best of luck!

[Greg Cutshaw]

If you plan on never buying another guitar I would go with 4 floor pedals and 5 knee levers. This would allow you to duplicate a lot of the sounds you hear on modern recordings and allow you to experiment with different tuning changes.

Guitar height is critical. I've bought guitars that were too tall and too short before. Too short leaves your legs hitting the guitar's undercarriage or forcing you to adjust the rear legs higher placing the guitar at an odd angle. Last few guitars I worked with the builder to figure out the height needed from the top of the volume pedal to the lowest hanging point of the undercarriage with a certain set of shoes on. You also have to consider where you want your knees to hit the knees levers as this will affect how the guitar feels to you.

[Dave Mudgett]

I don't think you can go wrong with a Justice. I do concur with everything Greg Cutshaw states. If this is a long-term guitar that you're having made-to-order, it won't cost a lot more to go 4 pedals and 5 levers, and that should future-proof you.

I especially concur with getting the height right. If you're average-height - let's say, somewhere in the range of 5'8" to 5'11" plus or minus a bit perhaps, an average height guitar will probably suit you fine. But much taller or shorter than that, you might want to talk with them about what height would be correct for you. When I started, I was a full 6'4", and I couldn't even get my knees under a standard height guitar in any position where my feet could work the pedals. I have to raise mine 2-3" above standard to be comfortable for me. Of course, this all depends on the player's specific anatomy, but there are plenty of players on here who have needed to either raise or lower their steels. And it's a lot easier to get this set correctly in the first place than to have to kludge a fix later on.

[Dennis Montgomery]

If you plan on never buying another guitar I would go with 4 floor pedals and 5 knee levers. This would allow you to duplicate a lot of the sounds you hear on modern recordings and allow you to experiment with different tuning changes.

I agree, though I'd actually go 5x5 if possible for more options (or maybe just have the holes drilled for the 5th floor pedal now and add later if necessary.) Also, if you're going to get an armrest (which I highly recommend) you might as well go SD12 and with the OP's musical background I'd put an extended E9 on it

[Pat Chong]

Hi Clay,

Just a suggestion on the volume pedal. Aside from the pedal's height, pick one with the hinge tward the rear, giving you a "car gas pedal" style of use. If the hinge is in the middle, your knee goes up and down, when using the pedal, and may clash with the underside of your PSG.

.........Pat.

[Jim Kennedy]

IMHO, the Justice S10 is the best bang for the buck out there. It is not far off in quality from their top of the line guitars. It can pretty much be set up to your liking. A true pro guitar at a bargain price that includes a case. A friend bought the next model up from yours, the S10 Pro. It is exceptional in quality and play-ability. My next guitar will be a justice S10.

[Doug Taylor]

I started playing 5 years ago at 62, after playing bass for most of my life. It is a fun ride, good luck to you!

[Jim Cooley]

Welcome Clay,

A 3X4 will let you play just about anything you want. There are some very famous players who played 3x4s. Since you're new to PSG, you might not yet know what changes you want on every pedal and knee lever on a 4X5. However, a 4X5 will allow for any additions you might decide on in the future.

The height of your steel should be such that your legs, arms, and back are in ergonomic and comfortable positions. I wouldn't base the height of the guitar on that of the the volume pedal, if that is what you meant in your question #4. The volume pedal should also be comfortable, but might be independent of the guitar height. For instance, I play standard height steels, but find low profile volume pedals to be more comfortable than standard height volume pedals. I also prefer the sweep or taper of low profile volume pedals over that of standard height pedals. Volume pedal height might also depend on your choice of footwear e.g., standard-heel western boots vs. loafers or sneakers.

Justice steel guitars have a very good reputation. Fifteen weeks is more than reasonable for a new build nowadays.

Enjoy your new steel. I'll bet you will.

[Joshua Gibson]

Hey Clay, Welcome to the wonderful yet occasionally infuriating world of Pedal steel (just a little joke, Don't worry it's not that bad) I just got My order in to Ron about a week ago, as Someone Who's been fortunate enough to own several steel brands I think weight-wise and cost-wise Justice is an excellent option especially for a beginning player, I've been at this for ten+ years and played everything from Emmons to Excel and Williams and when I tried one of Ron's guitars(that He'd actually built for another player I knew back in Washington State) while at the Mesa Show in 22 I told My other half "well, I know what My next Steel will be".

[Per Berner]

I would definitely go 4x5, to future-proof your steel. At the very least, 3x5 for the sake of resale value.

Manufacturers come and go, and parts needed to add another pedal or lever later on may become unobtainable. Just think how many steel brands are no longer being built – Zum, Derby, JCH, ZB, Fender, old-style Sierras, Fulawka, Emmons Legrande, Performance, Infinity, Pedalmaster, Sho-Bud, Carter, ETS, Rains, Rus-Ler, Magnum – the list goes on.

Of course parts can be manufactured if unavailable, but that will probably be quite expensive and require knowing a skilled machinist.

[J D Sauser]

The question is, is this a guitar to wet your feet with or is this to be THE guitar.
A well built PSG is never cheap, and they are not to easy to resell.

So, if this is to be THE guitar, and as you describe yourself, you don’t seem interested to play exclusively traditional Country music from Decades ago, I would join in with Greg’s and others’ opinion that you should aim at least at 3P + 5K (the 5th lever being a “vertical” (activated by your left knee going up)). 4P & 5K would be even better as modern E9th tunings have added the “PF”-pedal (after Paul Franklin).

A 5&5 would leave you open to experiment with C6th should you not find what you are looking for on E9th.

I would stay away from “Entry Level” guitars… they are limited in flexibility and always end up for sale and few are those who want to give them a new home.

Last but not least, I would suggest buying into Paul Franklin’s online course. Given your musical description, it will steer you in the more “Pop” etc direction.

… JD.

[John McClung]

Clay, I personally find an SD-10 (or in my case, SD-12) to fit and feel much better than any single wide guitar. The wider body puts he knee levers in more comfortable places.

Also go with a 4+5 if budget allows, you'll eventually grow into that setup and learn all kinds of new and useful things.

Justice guitars are quite nice. I think the Mullen is one of the best engineered under the hood, very easy to work on and modify changes. I play a Mullen D-12. Love it!

[Karol Wainscott]

Ron at Justice Steel Guitars is a very knowledgable and helping person . I have a Pro Lite being built as we speak . I am looking forward to it shipping the end of June . Can't wait . Great guy to work with .Ya cant go wrong with Justice .

[J D Sauser]

I just looked at their web site: https://justicesteelguitars.com
And while I’ve never played one, I see nothing wrong with that Pro-Lite.
I am not a fan of “pads”. Proper posture and hand position should never put the wrists on anything but thin air. They are what I would call “1 1/2 wide” and that’s nice as it puts the levers at a comfortable distance of the pedal rods (which can otherwise be an issue with tall people playing a narrow Single).
I see that while the Pro-Lite is priced with 3&4, additional pedals and levers are available on that model for $150.oo each which is a bargain, and I would suggest 4P & 5K as the smart choice, 5&5 as going “deluxe”… but at that price… it seems a no-brainer.

The thing beyond looks and mechanics is tone preference. I’ve never heard anything bad about these Justice guitars, but even while some tend to trash some guitars of the past for a particular “tone”, there have always been those who liked them. I would always urge to see, hear and have touched a particular brand guitar before committing to forking over a substantial amount of money, when ever that is possible (geographics). Sadly, there are less and less steel guitar shows around.

… JD.

[Dave Mudgett]

I plan to order a Justice S10 3x4 basic model.

I sort of missed this on my first reply. Are you talking about the Justice S10, which used to be the Justice Jr - https://justicesteelguitars.com/justice-s10/? I was not aware of the name change. And a totally appropriate change IMO - there is nothing "Junior" about this guitar. Full 3-up/3-down push-pull changer, it's what I would call a professional caliber steel.

That is S10 only, and I don't know how loaded up these can be made. I also don't know what the customizaton options are. But I still think it's worth talking with Ron about what is possible if you think, for example, you'd be better of with a taller or shorter steel. I think these are a great option for someone starting out, even if you can only go 3+4, and an absolute bargain for the money.

As far as pads go - some people like them, some don't. On an S10 like this, I would personally go for the pad because I'm tall - the pad extends the width a bit, pushes me back away from the steel, and serves as a reminder to keep my wrists straight. I do not touch the pad while playing my SD10 - except if my wrists bend will they momentarily touch the pad, and that serves as an instant reminder that I'm getting lazy/sloppy.

[Damir Besic]

great guitars, go for it …

[Bud Harger]

I recently bought a 2019 Justice “The Judge” D-10, 8f/7k. It was built by Fred Justice in 2019 and then completely gone through and adjusted back to original set-up by Ron, just a couple on months ago. What a great job he did!

Ron bought the Company some years before Fred’s passing… that gave him time to learn the ropes. I am super happy with this guitar. Ron is a joy to work with and he builds a first class PSG. Good luck. You won’t regret going with a Justice.

bUd

[Jared Ruari]

IMHO, the Justice S10 is the best bang for the buck out there. It is not far off in quality from their top of the line guitars. It can pretty much be set up to your liking. A true pro guitar at a bargain price that includes a case. A friend bought the next model up from yours, the S10 Pro. It is exceptional in quality and play-ability. My next guitar will be a justice S10.

I'll second this. I love my Justice s10 that Ron built for me recently. I wouldn't call it a student model. Intermediate or no-frills-pro is probably more accurate.