The Steel Guitar Forum

Hey everyone, I'm Sam, and I'm new to both the pedal steel and the steel guitar forum. A few weeks ago, I took the plunge on a Sho-Bud Maverick, since it was available in my area. Overall the guitar plays pretty well and sounds pretty good, but I'm moving pretty quickly in my pedal steel journey and I'm definitely feeling the growing pains of an older student model.

I'm starting to think about upgrading to a professional grade pedal steel sometime in the near future, and I could definitely use some recommendations. I want something that can grow with me as I learn the instrument, and that eventually I'll be able to use in more professional settings. Any particular brands, models, features etc I should look out for? I'm willing to pay for a quality instrument, so I'm not too limited by budget, but I want to make sure I'm getting the right thing. I'm also wondering whether it's best to buy one directly from a manufacturer, find one used on the forum, or take the trip to a brick-and-mortar store. Any input is welcome! Thanks.

Forget about the brick & mortar store. They probably won't carry steels, and if they did, the salesman wouldn't know squat about it. The Forum is a good place to start your search. Assuming you're concentrating on E9, I'd say get a steel with 3 pedals (or 4), and 5 knee levers, and you're pretty much set for life. As far as brand, they're pretty much all good nowadays.
I recommend getting a SD10... single neck on a double body with pad. Reason being, having that pad (or half pad) to rest your right forearm on will help your right hand technique, especially when starting out. Good luck & keep us in the loop.
JMHO...

Skip Edwards wrote:Forget about the brick & mortar store. They probably won't carry steels, and if they did, the salesman wouldn't know squat about it. The Forum is a good place to start your search. Assuming you're concentrating on E9, I'd say get a steel with 3 pedals (or 4), and 5 knee levers, and you're pretty much set for life. As far as brand, they're pretty much all good nowadays.
I recommend getting a SD10... single neck on a double body with pad. Reason being, having that pad (or half pad) to rest your right forearm on will help your right hand technique, especially when starting out. Good luck & keep us in the loop.
JMHO...

Appreciate the reply Skip. I was curious about whether to go SD10 or S10. I've seen lots of disagreement on the forum. I'd been leaning towards the S10, but I don't feel strongly either way. My main concern with the pad is whether it will get in the way of my left arm moving up and down the neck, plus the size and weight. How much larger and heavier is the SD? I'd like something that I can transport with relative ease.

I've been playing less than a year, so I'm also pretty new at this. I ended up buying a brand new Mullen from Gary Sill. It's an S10, but mainly I wanted to order one so I could get the height lowered by 2 in (I'm short at 5'6"!). I already had a Hudson six string, so I figured it was worth waiting to get exactly what I wanted. Also because I did not really know exactly what I wanted, I wanted to work with a dealer who had more experience. I'm not exactly handy, so I was concerned about getting a used one that might need a lot of fixing.

I figured that just one neck would do me for now, I can always get a d10 someday, or heck why not get an S10 just for C6 if I master E9 and am bored?

Samuel... yeah, an SD would be a little heavier, but not that much. An S10 isn't all that light, anyway. Unless you get a lightweight "fly" guitar. The way I kinda see it, if you're a guitar player, and you can carry an amp, you can carry a steel.
I wouldn't worry too much about your left arm with the pad. The support under your right forearm is the big plus, IMHO. As far as size, it would depend on whether it had a pad or half pad.

Samuel,
Welcome to the Forum!
A double-wide (SD) will definitely be a bit heavier than a single neck. On the other hand, I do like having the extra room underneath for knee lever ergonomics and placement options. It also puts the pedals a bit farther away, which I like.
The pad will not get in your way.
Enjoy the journey!

Hey Sam, what part of MA? I'm in the Pioneer Valley.

If money is no object, I'd go for a new guitar. Justice Steels come highly recommended, Emmons is back in biz, and Sierras seem super nice!

Personally, I've never liked pads. They always seem to drag on my arm and get in the way. But many people do like them.

I'm going to put a plug in for a 12 string D13 tuning that Johnny Cox has developed. You can search on the forum for more information. I play a rudimentary version of that tuning, but I love how it gives me such a wide range of sounds and options. You have your "country" E9 changes, and all the 6th chord goodness of C6, right there in one neck. You may have to transpose or adjust learning material, but I don't find that to be very cumbersome.

Daniel Bailey wrote:I've been playing less than a year, so I'm also pretty new at this. I ended up buying a brand new Mullen from Gary Sill. It's an S10, but mainly I wanted to order one so I could get the height lowered by 2 in (I'm short at 5'6"!). I already had a Hudson six string, so I figured it was worth waiting to get exactly what I wanted. Also because I did not really know exactly what I wanted, I wanted to work with a dealer who had more experience. I'm not exactly handy, so I was concerned about getting a used one that might need a lot of fixing.

I figured that just one neck would do me for now, I can always get a d10 someday, or heck why not get an S10 just for C6 if I master E9 and am bored?

Hey Daniel. You make a pretty good point about new vs used guitars. What did you think about your Mullen? Mullen has been one of the brands I've been looking at pretty seriously, along with GFI and a few others.

Daniel Bailey wrote:I've been playing less than a year, so I'm also pretty new at this. I ended up buying a brand new Mullen from Gary Sill. It's an S10, but mainly I wanted to order one so I could get the height lowered by 2 in (I'm short at 5'6"!). I already had a Hudson six string, so I figured it was worth waiting to get exactly what I wanted. Also because I did not really know exactly what I wanted, I wanted to work with a dealer who had more experience. I'm not exactly handy, so I was concerned about getting a used one that might need a lot of fixing.

I figured that just one neck would do me for now, I can always get a d10 someday, or heck why not get an S10 just for C6 if I master E9 and am bored?

Hey Daniel. You make a pretty good point about new vs used guitars. What did you think about your Mullen? Mullen has been one of the brands I've been looking at pretty seriously, along with GFI and a few others.

Andrew Goulet wrote:Hey Sam, what part of MA? I'm in the Pioneer Valley.

If money is no object, I'd go for a new guitar. Justice Steels come highly recommended, Emmons is back in biz, and Sierras seem super nice!

Personally, I've never liked pads. They always seem to drag on my arm and get in the way. But many people do like them.

I'm going to put a plug in for a 12 string D13 tuning that Johnny Cox has developed. You can search on the forum for more information. I play a rudimentary version of that tuning, but I love how it gives me such a wide range of sounds and options. You have your "country" E9 changes, and all the 6th chord goodness of C6, right there in one neck. You may have to transpose or adjust learning material, but I don't find that to be very cumbersome.

Hey Andrew! I'm in Boston. Good to know there's at least a few of us here in MA. I'm thinking that you're right about getting a brand new guitar as opposed to a used one. As far as the 12 string D13 tuning goes... I'm intrigued. I think I might need to spend some more time learning the E9 10 string but maybe someday I'll experiment with that.

The GFI expo S10 is a great option, and pretty affordable when you find them used on the forum. I had one for several years before moving to a D10. I found it quite nice to play. Stayed in tune, smooth action, didn't need any maintenance. I went with a used GFI for the D10 as well because I was already used to how they play, and there is a GFI dealer near me so I knew I'd be covered if it ever needed work. If I was buying a new guitar today I would probably be looking at Mullen or Williams, or an Emmons Resound if cost was no object.

Pad is a personal preference I guess. Not a big fan here. All due respect, hate to mess up a several thousand guitar with an ugly vinyl pad. Plus they just get in my way.

Some advantages to an SD10 is there is more room underneath. Might be a plus for a large person. OTOH, they carry more weight.

I make no apologies for being a huge Mullen fan for 35 years and the new Single body G2 is certainly enticing for a single neck 10 or Uni 12 player. Puts everything you need there in a more compact cabinet. Then there's the Discovery S10 for the budget minded.

Best of luck whatever you choose.

I personally strongly prefer an SD-10 for a single-neck guitar. But I'm tall (shrunk to 6'3", when I started I was 6'4"), and my legs are real long. So that is a consideration - ergonomics is really critical - if you're short, you might not like the double-wide body. But if you're tall, I think an SD-10 would be smart.

I have a Mullen G2 SD-10 and an MSA Legend SD-10. They are both excellent guitar, and if you're looking for new, I think either would be hard to beat. I think, however, that the wait time for a Mullen is much shorter. I personally am a big fan of ZumSteel guitars. Bruce Zumsteg is no longer building them, but a later-model guitar in good shape would last a lifetime too.

There are quite a few other companies making steels - e.g., Justice, Sierra, Rittenberry, and Excel (the latter made in Japan) are worth checking out. I have played a Justice and a Rittenberry, and they are very good guitars. I haven't played one of the new (Ross Shafer) Sierras yet, but there are several people on the forum (including our recently deceased leader Bobby Lee) who have extolled their virtues to me. I had two of the original Oregon-made Sierras, they were really excellent guitars. Heavy, but excellent. In fact, they pop up here pretty routinely for reasonable money - S10, D10, and 12-string Universals. One of mine was a Sierra 14-string Universal. The only reason I don't still have that one was the weight. Ross's new Sierras are quite different, and I believe the weight is one of those big differences.

I don't think there is any problem buying a used guitar provided you deal with the right person or shop, and get a verified "NO-ISSUES" guitar. One way to do this is to deal with someone who offers a return privilege and stands by their sales. Another way to do that is to get someone who knows their business to come with you to check the guitar out, if you can find one locally. Yeah, I know Boston is tough - I grew up in Boston (and for a time, in Amherst), and it is not exactly pedal steel central, to say the least. But honestly, not much of anywhere is.

Aside from Billy Cooper's in Orange, VA, Jim Palenscar's shop Steel Guitars of North County (northern San Diego CA county), Patrick Timmons shop in Seattle, and Johnie King in Lavergne TN (greater Nashville), it's kinda hard to see an assortment of pedal steels. There are some members like Damir Besic and Mike DiAlesandro who frequently have several steels, but don't have a storefront.

I don't know what you want to play, but I would not necessarily rule out a D10 (E9 and C6) or a 12-string Universal E9/B6 or Extended E9. If you're into jazz like bebop or other straightahead jazz music, I'd just take the plunge and get a D10. But if you want to stick to traditional country or Americana, E9 is probably just fine. I do find my ZumSteel 12-string Universal very useful when I want to play Western Swing - the extended low end really fills out the bottom on those swing chords that one would get on a typical 8-string console or lap steel in something like A6 or C6.

I strongly recommend being very patient, and wait until you are absolutely sure of what you want, and also that the guitar you're looking at is absolutely gonna fill the bill. You have a guitar, no reason to rush into this. These contraptions are complex, expensive, and heavy and unpleasant to ship all over the place if you decide it doesn't work for you. If you watch the forum For Sale: Steel Guitars section for a while, you should be able to get an idea what's available, what stuff costs, and what people like and don't like about various guitars. Obviously, if you can find some people around who will let you check out their guitars, that's always a good idea. And ask plenty of questions.

Check out Hummingbird Music, Sugar Creek Ohio web site, They Sell, Trade and Buy steel guitars. Rick Troyer owner, Is quite a steel player himself. The store is south of Cleveland OH. By Google maps, The milage is close between Billy Cooper in Virginia and Hummingbird Music in Ohio.

You may want to consider going to a S12 Extended E9th. With 7 pedals and 4 or 5 knee levers, You could go Universal, or Johnny Coxs D13th if you want to. You would have a guitar that can be changed, And re-rodded to what ever you want.

Now that you are hooked, Good Luck on your journey with Pedal Steel Guitar.

I played a D-10 for my first 8 years. I was playing small licks of C6th on E9th. Then I bought a single 12. A standard U-12 tuning wasn't settled at that time, so I experimented with tunings. Jeff Newman finally initialized the U-12 and I haven't looked back. I would recommend that you buy a U-12 with 7+5 and you'll be glad that you did in the long term. One neck with both tunings and lighter in weight than a D-10. If taking the plunge for a new guitar, Mullen, Williams, MSA, etc. The new MSA's are top of the line gold standard, but a hardy price. A used MSA Universal model is good. There are many top of the line brands. If ordering new, request compensators on strings 4, 8 and 12. You'll be good to go for the rest of your steel playing life.

I bought a Justice Pro Lite 3x5 six years ago from Justice, great instrument, I live on the Southern Coast of Maine, about an hour and a half north of you, if you’re in the area give me a call.

Hi Sam. I started out on the maverick,then to a single BMI. Wonderful guitar. They seem to get overlooked. My latest is a GFI single. Great guitar . Good luck,and keep pickin.

I sent you a pm...did you get it?MD

Hey Sam! Congrats on picking up the steel guitar. I started about 4 years ago, and the people on this forum (and some local friends too) really helped me get my head on straight about it.

I started with a GFI. It was a very nice steel, and sounded great. I wanted something relatively light, and portable, and the GFI S10 was exactly that. It was kind of like the PRS of steels. Highly recommended.

I then moved up to a Mullen Royal Precision D10. I wanted something that had a slightly different sound, and I wanted something with modern mechanics. The Mullen was outstanding.

After playing that for 2 years, I decided that I wanted to concentrate on the E9 neck, and that having a D10 was just too much weight, and lots of unused parts for me. I decided on an SD10, because I really like the feeling of having a pad under my forearms….for me, it makes things more comfy. There is some added weight due to the larger body size, but since none of the mechanics are under there, it’s not too bad. I don’t ever see myself going back to an S10.

I also decided that I was going to go “all in” and buy a really nice instrument. I really liked my Mullen, and seriously thought about getting a G2 SD10. I would still like one! But since psg is not my main instrument, I’m limiting myself to one guitar at a time.

But, in the end, I found an Emmons Legrande 2 that spoke to me. I had Billy Knowles go through and make some upgrades, do a bit of refurbishment, and change to the copedent I wanted. Needless to say, it is an awesome guitar. If you are looking for Emmons, I would call Billy. I know there are lots of other highly regarded folks around here who will hook you up with an Emmons, so there’s lots of great choices to be made…..but the only experience I have is with Billy, and he was just about as nice and accommodating as it gets. And the sound of the Emmons is just great….it has a classic sound, and a growling midrange that just sits perfectly in a mix. I know lots of folks will say that a push pull Emmons has the best sound, and maybe they are right. But I can tell you that my all pull Legrande 2 sounds outstanding, plays like butter, is solid as a rock, and is just fun to play.

If you want an heirloom quality instrument, another option is calling Ross Shafer who makes Sierra guitars. He is a great guy, and his guitars are the best. If I could afford one, I would get one in a heartbeat!