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Emmons cross shaft
Posted: 21 Mar 2023 7:46 am
by Steve Goodson
Can anyone tell me how to remove a cross shaft on my Emmons LL so I can get to the screws to remove the key head?
Posted: 21 Mar 2023 8:07 am
by Jerry Overstreet
There have been a few threads about this. One here:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... ross+shaft
The cross shaft has a spring loaded dowel pin in one end that has to be dealt with in order to get the shaft out in one piece.
The other option is to cut the shaft in two to remove it and replace it with a new one as desired.
Posted: 21 Mar 2023 10:05 am
by Ian Worley
You can loosen those screws under the LKL shaft to remove the keyhead for service without removing the cross shaft using a small slotted tip screwdriver angled under the shaft, but that won't allow you to completely remove the screws themselves on the C6 side. Moving those spring loaded pins to release the shaft without cutting is next to impossible, the pins themselves are hardened steel so very difficult to cut. If you're converting a D10 to an SD where you need to remove the keyhead permanently, just put a couple of 10-32 nuts on on those screws on top and leave them in place. That's the simplest and cleanest solution, a typical SD pad will hide them on top.
Posted: 21 Mar 2023 10:30 am
by Willie Sims
you might try pushing the shaft back on the pin , and see if the other end clears the bushing.maybe the way they were installed at the factory.
Posted: 21 Mar 2023 10:51 am
by Ron Pruter
What Ian said. I just did it. No easy way to take out shaft. Bad design! RP
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=388550
Posted: 21 Mar 2023 11:01 am
by Jerry Overstreet
Well, I won't belabor the issue further, but I have done it on a Derby which is the same design as the LL. True, it's not an Emmons and it takes time and patience but it can be done.
This post describes one method:
Bill Plemmons wrote:A Legrande cross shaft can usually be removed if there is some space between the rear apron and the end of the shaft. I once watched Ron Jr. remove a cross shaft on my Legrande and I have since done it several times myself. Place a screwdriver or other small "prying" tool under the shaft being removed to exert upward pressure on the shaft and use a very thin bladed tool to access and move the pin into the shaft. With no pressure on the the shaft, move the pin into the shaft, hold the pin and apply upward pressure to the shaft with the screwdriver to keep the pin from moving back into the apron. Repeat the process as needed until the shaft comes out. When I do this I use a small piece of laminate under the end of the screwdriver blade to keep from marring the cabinet. Hope this helps.
I agree that the screws can be removed without removing the cross shafts on some guitars with some ingenuity so I defer to Ian here.
I have removed necks and keyheads from both Zum and Mullen D10 guitars this way. It involved loosening or removing some other hardware but it was doable. The screws don't necessarily have to come all the way out of the guitar, just out of the keyhead.
Posted: 21 Mar 2023 12:02 pm
by Ian Worley
I think the method described for sliding the pin over could work if there is was a bit of lateral play in the cross shaft. Perhaps on some (older?) guitars that is the case, but on my '98 LeGrande it's not. A thin blade putty knife or utility knife pretty much fills the entire gap tight. I tried and concluded that, at least on my guitar, it was a fool's errand.
Posted: 21 Mar 2023 5:08 pm
by Jerry Overstreet
I defer to Ian since I have not personally tried to remove a cross shaft from an Emmons.
Here is another idea to try by drilling the shaft and pushing the pin back with a sharp pick. You have to be careful not to drill into the pin and causing a burr which would make the job more difficult, but worth a shot if all else fails. I'll shut up now.
Jerry Overstreet wrote:Sounds like you have circumvented the necessity of removing the shafts in your case but here's what I'd try if faced with the same situation.
If they go in with the body assembled, they should come out. Assuming that the square part of the shaft is clear of the aprons and there is room to use a drill motor.
Drill a small hole @ 90 degrees, say 1/16" or so, in the shaft about 1/8"-1/4" back from the end adjacent to the dowel, then push the pin back up in there with a sharp metal pick?
I know it would take several tries pushing back on the dowel while keeping tension on the shaft to keep the pin from popping back in, but should eventually get there.
Sure, you need to have some idea of the pin length so as not to go behind it, but the hole location shouldn't be critical. The shafts may be stainless steel, so a quality drill, patience and care is necessary also.