Raising the 5th (B to D)

[Roger Rettig]

I've always felt the heart of the E9 tuning was the 5th string. It's tonally satisfying and it's useful to get plenty of options hooked up to it.

I was trying in vain to replicate the intro/turn-around from Albert Lee's version of Jesse Winchester's 'Skip Rope Song'. It's in D minor with a tricky top-line and a descending bass-line. While I was struggling to get it in a smooth and acceptable manner, I found myself thinking: 'If I could just raise the 5th a step-and-a-half without the 10th moving...'

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1442285535796618

So: I hooked it up on my LKV. (I can't reach that lever but with the help of a lump of wood and some tape, now I can.)

Yes, I found how to play that piece, but I also found so much more! It's great to get the sus4 without having to skip across to the 2nd and engage RKR. I adjusted the lower to drop to an A; now that string moves cleanly and smoothly through two-and-a-half-tones, and all while the pedals-down chord is sustaining throughout.

Does anyone else have this? I did a search and found a mention of Tommy Dodd occasionally having it on a spare KL but that's all.

I'm enjoying it. Although I've backed out the split-tune/lower screw to allow the drop to A, I can still half pedal my RKL to get B to Bb so nothing is lost and a lot has been gained. Playing the A chord and moving the 5th through the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 2nd and down to the root and back facilitates a host of melodic moves.

Of course, without pedals, it's a flat 7th but that's less exciting.
LKV with the B pedal (9-3) is a nice D add9.
LKV with the B pedal (10-3) and there's a B minor.

I bet there's lots more...

[Richard Sinkler]

I've kicked around the idea of raising string 5 to D. I had seen it on someone's copedent years ago. In the solo to "Old Country" by Mark Chesnutt, there is a spot where you are playing string 3 & 5, and while moving up the neck, the A pedal is engaged and the at the next fret a bar slant on string 5 (the equivalent of rasing 3 half steps). I always wanted to try the B to D change in place of the bar slant.

[Roger Rettig]

Bar slants are great and have a character of their own, but they do limit the number of strings you can play (if you want to be in tune).

My new change is a keeper, I'm pretty sure, even if I did only think of it two days ago.

Now: if I could only find a way of extending that LKV downwards without removing the whole KL. The retaining screws holding it in place are flush up against a cross-shaft; I'm not up to removing substantial parts of the undercarriage to that extent.

[Clyde Mattocks]

I've always raised B to D. Couldn't live without it. It's on a knee so I can have A and B down and have a suspended chord. Also with an indepedent E to F#, I can go from the A and B down to the IV of that chord. There are some other neat uses.

[Dan Galysh]

I played a set on Denny Hemingson's Emmons once and he had that change on his guitar. I found myself utilizing it a few times. Cool change.

[Roger Rettig]

Glad to hear that, Clyde.

It came to me, as I said, while searching for something obscure but I can already see constant uses for it.

I am surprised it's not more common, though.

[Ron Pruter]

So, I never thought of using that 5th string raise to sus 4 the A/B chord. I like. Any tuning probs with that? RP

[Roger Rettig]

I've had none, Ron. I expect that I'll keep a fresh .018" on there: it's going through a lot of stretching.

[John Swain]

I believe that was on a copedant in the Winnie Winston book. My memory is Jimmy Day had it !

[Ian Rae]

Assuming that the 5th string is already raised to C#, I get the D by sliding up a fret, releasing the B pedal if it's engaged and lowering the Es - does for most things. Maybe not for Roger's obscure purpose!

[Roger Rettig]

Well, Ian, it wouldn't have helped in that case.

I also make the move as you have described but, with this lever, I make use of more strings and the supporting chord remains static while the 5th follows it's own melody.

[Roger Rettig]

Most of the time, whenever I wanted that note with pedals down (the 4th), I'd mute the others and slide up one fret and down again quickly. I'd do this in preference to jumping to the 2nd string and engaging a KL.

I can't imagine losing this change now, though. It's so nice getting the sus4 within the chord, not to mention the many other applications that are revealing themselves.

By way of an update, I have now wound the 'lower' back to a Bb; it was cool being able to reach the A note but not useful enough to sacrifice that split-tuned half-step drop.

(I have also switched my LKLs again! Now, LKL1 raises 1,2 and 7 and LKL2 (inside) is lowering the Es. Now that the LKV is getting so much use, I like the E-lower adjacent to the new B to D KL.)

PS: I think that LKL1 (1,2,7-raise) could become extinct. It's a pretty change but definitely a 'lick pedal'. I'm now missing the G# to A# raise and that is a 'chord pedal'. I do need to spend more time on top of my guitar rather than under it!!

[John McClung]

Roger et all, I'm finally getting my Zum S12 7+6 set up, and the B>D change is a new one I have high hopes for.

Main use will be to get scale degree 4 in closed chord position major scales, I've never liked having to lower string 2 to get that note. Just me, I'm sure.

But that will also be good for the sus4 mentioned by others.

I think it may be cool in open chords adding scale degree 6 with the A pedal, than popping it up to the dom7 note, you can get an easy "Memphis" vamp out of that.

It will be on my LKL-Front staggered lever. My E's up and down are on the right knee. Old MSA setup, and I like it a lot.

[Roger Rettig]

Not 'just yoy', John - me as well.

Yes, the sus4 within the chord is a real boon but getting that 4th tone within that 3-6 string group pedals-down is key (and what inspired me to add it: the Albert Lee tune's intro was eluding me on either neck - now it's under the fingers, as it were).

Since then. I've stumbled on lots of other uses - adding just the B pedal among them. Getting a full Dadd9 at zero fret is just one more.

On my projected D13 (I'm still waiting), I had already seen the potential of having that 4th/b7 tone on the extra string: it's only recently occurred to me to put it on my E9!

[John McClung]

Not 'just yoy', John - me as well.

Yes, the sus4 within the chord is a real boon but getting that 4th tone within that 3-6 string group pedals-down is key (and what inspired me to add it: the Albert Lee tune's intro was eluding me on either neck - now it's under the fingers, as it were).

Since then. I've stumbled on lots of other uses - adding just the B pedal among them. Getting a full Dadd9 at zero fret is just one more.

On my projected D13 (I'm still waiting), I had already seen the potential of having that 4th/b7 tone on the extra string: it's only recently occurred to me to put it on my E9!

Roger, keep me posted on any other uses and discoveries, either here, or in our ongoing email correspondence.

Here's an idea that might work for you: on my extended E9, pedal 7 raises string 11 G# to B, yielding a 4/5 chord that Buddy used as the final chord for "Shenadoah" on YouTube. (Bruce made that happen via a custom gizmo on Buddy's D10 ZumSteel).

So at zero fret that's closed A, strings 4-5-6 over B bass note. Gorgeous when it resolves to the E tonic. That's already on my Mullen using C6 pedal 8. It's a 2-foot affair, by the way.

[Roger Rettig]

Thanks, John: I certainly will.

Your chart is carefully stored for future reference should I abandon D13 and change to Ext E9.

At this point, I'm excited at the D13th concept so I intend to give it my full attention when it gets here.

This note - the sus4 against pedals down was very much a part of my plan as I said above.

As for the 4/5, that's another 'must have' for me. On my D13th, RKR will lower the 11th (A to G). That same pull will cancel the A to B on my P3.

On my Emmons, my RKR lowers 2, 9 and 10 (9 and 10 drop to C# and A respectively) and I have that tuned to drop my 10th from C# back to B.

4/5 with pedals down is the result.

[Bill Cunningham]

Jerry Newberry showed me that change on his guitar several years ago. Jerry was using it as a ballad lick. I believe he said he got it from Russ Hicks.

[Brint Hannay]

I believe that was on a copedant in the Winnie Winston book. My memory is Jimmy Day had it !

Actually, in that chart Jimmy raised 5 and 10 to D on LKV!