HELP!! Won't boot

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 6 Sep 2022 9:17 am

I can't get my computer to start up in Win10. In possible preparation to upgrade to Win11, I made a clone of my hard drive using Acronis. Last week, I tested the clone drive, and it worked great. I put the original HD back in and it as been working great. Nothing has been done to the hard drives since the cloning. This morning I put the clone drive in the computer and got the following screens. I put the original back in and now get these screens for it too. It never gets to the operating system.

This is the first screen:

I click on US, and it takes me to this screen:

I select Continue - Exit and continue to Windows 10. It reboots and takes me right back to the select keyboard layout screen. I select US, and again it reboots me into the select keyboard screen. A never ending cycle no matter what HD I use. I got out my USB drive that has my rescue stuff on it, and I still get the same stuff. I am including 2 shots of bios settings that I have tried. I have the clone drive in an external enclosure at the moment, and tried to boot to it first, and the same problem come up. Any ideas before I take a sledge hammer to the computer. The computer is just over 3 years old and has worked flawlessly since I bought it in 2019.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 6 Sep 2022 10:27 am

Looks like Windows Boot Manager is corrupted. I don't know what is on the Acronis rescue media, but the Macrium Reflect rescue media (I use a USB flash drive) has a utility to fix the boot manager.

I used to use Acronis but it seemed to be adding bloatware and it failed me twice trying to restore a disc. It didn't get a third chance and I switched to Macrium Reflect.

Clone is iffy, may work OK and may not. Also, when you clone the full disc, all partitions, need cloned. I see a lot of clone failures because only the "C drive" was cloned.
Because clone is iffy, I only do full disc image backups (all partitions).

If you have a working computer, download the free version of Macrium Reflect (Version eight) install and then create the rescue media. Boot with the rescue media and repair the boot manager on the original drive.

https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

If its not the boot manager, looks like an "in place upgrade" may be needed. Basically you download Win 10 (or Win 11 but I don't know if Win 11 would work for this procedure since you have Win 10) using the media creation tool, create the bootable flash drive, boot with that and select the options to keep all user data and programs.

In place upgrade instructions from tenforums.com tutorials:
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/163 ... grade.html

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 6 Sep 2022 11:21 am

My rescue usb flash drive was created using windows 10. It won't boot from it either. The computer won' come up at all. If that boot thingie is corrupt, wouldn't that be specific to the hard drive that Windows is installed on? It's happening with the clone drive too. The clone drive booted up last week after I created it, and programs would run fine. And as of yesterday, the original drive was OK. Never, except last week when cloning, gave the 2 drives been hooked up to the computer at the same time.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 6 Sep 2022 1:53 pm

Clear (reset)the CMOS memory. This will also reset the BIOS.

Power off and AC power cord disconnected. Open the case and locate the CR2032 coin cell battery on the motherboard.
Remove the battery for at least 5 minutes. Reinstall battery, observing polarity. Reconnect AC power cord. Power on and try.
Many PC's have a jumper to clear CMOS, removing battery is a more positive method.

2032 CMOS batteries generally last 5 years. If the PC is 5 years or near that install a new battery. We see many problems on the Dell support forums caused by the CMOS battery.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 6 Sep 2022 3:46 pm

I have 2032's in stock. I will give it a try. I Gaggled my computer and it says to remove battery, move the CMOS clear jumper to the clear setting, move back to default, reinstall battery, power up and see what happens. I'll give that a try in the morning.

Thanks

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 7 Sep 2022 8:50 am

Replacing the battery and clearing the CMOS did no good. But, I was able to boot ONCE off the original hard drive in an external enclosure, although incredible slow (took almost 10 minutes to boot up and get to my desktop). But after I tried it again, it wouldn't boot from there either. I am suspecting the SATA interface is bad. Even when I booted from the external enclosure, I couldn't see the internal drive in File Explorer. It dose show up in the BIOS settings though. I tried disabling the SATA controller in BIOS to see if I could boot again from the external drive, and now when I restart the computer, I can't even get into the BIOS settings. I am removing the the battery and clearing the CMOS again to see if that helps.

It's time to take a sledge hammer to this computer. Luckily, my laptop still works, but has gotten pretty slow, and it's not upgradable to WIN 11.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 7 Sep 2022 9:46 am

Do you have BIOS set for UEFI (required for Win 11) or Legacy?
If you had legacy and changed to UEFI that can be an issue as Legacy disc format is MBR, UEFI requires GPT.

Acronis rescue disc creation should have an option to create both so you can boot in Legacy and UEFI.

Internal drives run off the SATA controller. If you disable it, you have disabled the boot drive (and any other drive including CD/DVD)

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 7 Sep 2022 3:26 pm

My rescue USB thumb drive was not created with Acronis. I last updated it a couple months ago before I had Acronis. It would not work either. The computer was purchased in 2019, and is UEFI.

After trying to disable the SATA controller to see if I could force it to boot from the external drive with the original hard drive, When I turned off the computer and rebooted it, I couldn't get it to go into the BIOS at all. Removing the battery and clearing CMOS took care of that. Still won't boot from either hard drive. The rescue thumb drive would boot, but acts the same as the problems with trying to boot from the hard drives. Keeps getting to those screens above. Once I got it to try and do a repair, but it said it couldn't repair it. Couldn't boot into safe mode either.

This computer will end up at an electronic recycling place. I can access any data files on the hard drive with an extenal USB enclosure. I wasted 2 days on this P.O.S. sad that I have a 3 year old computer that is dead. My 8 or 9 year old laptop, although it has slowed down over the years. Is still going strong.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 8 Sep 2022 2:07 am

I wouldn't give up so fast. We've eliminated what its not.

Using the laptop, create an in place upgrade Win 10 flash drive using the procedure I linked.
Boot with that and "fix" the original hard drive's Win 10 installation.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 8 Sep 2022 4:54 am

Jack Stoner wrote:I wouldn't give up so fast. We've eliminated what its not.

Using the laptop, create an in place upgrade Win 10 flash drive using the procedure I linked.
Boot with that and "fix" the original hard drive's Win 10 installation.

It's worth a try. I didn't know that was possible. I really need that desktop and can't afford a new one. My laptop is older and not as fast. But it does work.

Thanks.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 8 Sep 2022 10:12 am

Jack... Questions & concerns

On the links you provided, these instructions confuse me.

If you're having problems with Windows 10 on your PC, you could use push-button reset to refresh or reset Windows.

Refresh your PC Fixes software problems by reinstalling the OS while preserving the user data, user accounts, and important settings. All other preinstalled customizations are restored to their factory state. In Windows 10, this feature no longer preserves user-acquired Windows apps.

Reset your PC prepares the PC for recycling or for transfer of ownership by reinstalling the OS, removing all user accounts and contents (e.g. data, Classic Windows applications, and Universal Windows apps), and restoring preinstalled customizations to their factory state.

The options above are great for what they are intended for, but you could also do a repair install of Windows 10 by performing an in-place upgrade without losing anything other than all installed Windows Updates.

You will keep all apps, programs and personal data, just as when you upgrade, as an in-place upgrade repair uses the same basic mechanism as when you upgrade.

You will only be able to do a repair install of Windows 10 from within Windows 10. You will not be able to do a repair install at boot or in Safe Mode.
You will need at least around 8.87 GB + what Windows is currently using of free space available on the Windows drive.
The installation media (ex: ISO or USB) must be the same edition and same or newer build as your currently installed Windows 10. If it's not, then the repair install will fail.
The installation media (ex: ISO or USB) must be the same base language (aka: system default language) as your currently installed Windows 10. If it's not, then you will not keep anything.
If you have a 32-bit Windows 10, then you must use a 32-bit ISO or USB.
If you have a 64-bit Windows 10, then you must use a 64-bit ISO or USB.

I don't know if the Win 10 build on my laptop and desktop would be the same. Both run 27/7 and have automatics updates.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 8 Sep 2022 12:01 pm

You want the 64 bit option.
It states it won't do an in place upgrade from boot, but I did it that way with the media creation tool created flash drive.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 10 Sep 2022 8:22 am

Any update?

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 10 Sep 2022 11:35 am

It's toast. It won't boot off the thumb drive created with my laptop. It won't boot from the thumb drive that was created on my desktop. Could the bios be bad? Also, the bios sees the HD and identified it correctly. It just won't boot by any means.

A friend is going to trade me a Dell Optiplex 9020, 32gb ram, 1TB Solid State Drive, up to date Windows 10 Pro for my mandolin, which I can't really play because of nerve issues in my left hand.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 10 Sep 2022 2:21 pm

Optiplexes are good machines. They are Dell business systems.

Be warned it does not meet Microsoft's requirements for Win 11. Dell does not support it with any Win 11 drivers.
Microsoft seems to be leaning towards what Apple does with new OS'- not backward compatible with most older hardware.
They did that with the recent "memory integrity" update to Windows Defender. It won't enable with some older hardware drivers. I have a fully functional Frontier Tranzport (wireless recording program controller). The driver for the Tranzport is a Vista era driver and memory integrity will not activate. Frontier is no longer around so no new driver will ever be issued.

There are ways to install Win 11 on non compliant hardware, but there is no guarantee that at some point Microsoft pulls the plug on non compliant systems.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 11 Sep 2022 5:23 am

After looking at the 9020 spec's I hate to see you go back so far with an old (and probably well used) 2015 era, 4th gen Intel CPU machine.

I'm not ready to give up on your machine.

Download/Install Macrium Reflect FREE V8. Install it then create a USB rescue disc. Make sure the block is marked to enable multi boot (MBR and UEFI).
Try booting with the flash drive (select UEFI if it shows both). If it boots, Macrium has a utility to fix boot problems. Run that and see if it fixes boot problems on system drive.

If that won't boot then hardware is suspect.

Macrium download link. Select the home free V8 version: https://www.macrium.com/reflectfree

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 11 Sep 2022 10:28 am

Yesterday, I made a rescue disk (DVD) from my laptop and tried booting from that. Didn't work. I decided to reformat the drive out of the desktop. The DVD rescue disc from laptop did boot and installed Win 10 on the original hard drive. So, I am getting convinced it's not hardware at this point. My concern is getting the correct device drivers for the original hard drive / computer. My assumption is that it has the drivers for my laptop, which may or may not work (?). I did a Win 10 update on it and I read where you can update drivers in the additional (or is it optional) updates in the update. There were none available.

Since the Dell isn't costing me anything, there's no harm. But I would prefer this one working if no other reason that it is Win 11 upgradable (even though I probably won't outlive the cutoff date for Win 10 support). I'm wondering if I should try to upgrade to Win 11 on that hard drive. I really have nothing to lose at this point. I do still have the clone drive intact for backup (but won't boot). I saved any important files from the drive I formatted to another spare HDD I have, and copied them to use on my laptop (which is not Win 11 compatible).

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 11 Sep 2022 11:35 am

After all this trial and error, I'd take it to a local computer shop and let them straighten it out. They have the diagnosis and repair tools to get it going. I don't have the patience to experiment with this stuff anymore.

RC

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 11 Sep 2022 1:10 pm

Good. Sounds like just a corrupted disk.
In many cases Windows will install needed drivers. If everything is working you can assume Windows installed any needed drivers.
My current system was upgraded with a new motherboard (different brand) and CPU. I used the drive I had been using with the old
motherboard and Windows 10 installed any needed drivers.

I would consider the original cloned drive is toast too, since it acts like the original did.

If Win 10 is running OK, before you update to Win 11, made a full disc image backup, not clone, to the spare drive. If the Win 11 screws up, you can rebuild Win 10 from it.

If you want to use Macrium Reflect, download the free version from the link I provided. Most techs on computer forums I'm on are using Macrium over other programs.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 11 Sep 2022 1:48 pm

Rick Campbell wrote:After all this trial and error, I'd take it to a local computer shop and let them straighten it out. They have the diagnosis and repair tools to get it going. I don't have the patience to experiment with this stuff anymore.

RC

Its good for me. Keeps my 84 year old brain going. I do support on a couple computer forums and the Dell support forums.

Also helps users that are on a tight budget and can't afford a repair shop fees.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 11 Sep 2022 3:10 pm

Rick Campbell wrote:After all this trial and error, I'd take it to a local computer shop and let them straighten it out. They have the diagnosis and repair tools to get it going. I don't have the patience to experiment with this stuff anymore.

RC

I can't afford to put food on my table, so taking it in to a repair shop is not in the cards.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 11 Sep 2022 3:13 pm

Jack Stoner wrote:
Rick Campbell wrote:After all this trial and error, I'd take it to a local computer shop and let them straighten it out. They have the diagnosis and repair tools to get it going. I don't have the patience to experiment with this stuff anymore.

RC
Its good for me. Keeps my 84 year old brain going. I do support on a couple computer forums and the Dell support forums.

Also helps users that are on a tight budget and can't afford a repair shop fees.

I already have Macrium Reflect and updated it today. I will try that tomorrow. I'll keep the clone for the data that is on it that I might need to get in the future.

Rick Campbell · Post by **Rick Campbell** » 11 Sep 2022 5:58 pm

I understand. I'm lucky, I've got a pro computer guy in my circle that will do things like, this for cheap.

RC

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 12 Sep 2022 2:12 am

You can get any needed data off of a Macrium disc image, you don't need to clone.

A comparison on Clone/Image. When you clone you copy everything including bad disc sectors and corrupted data. On an image those are not copied.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 12 Sep 2022 5:55 am

I'm keeping the clone of the original drive for backup of what was on the original. I am using the original to go back in the machine as it is the one that is in the computer now, that I reformatted and was able to get the disc I created from my laptop. It does run windows.

Should I still make an image of my laptop or what is on the drive in the desktop? The only thing on the drive now is whatever the rescue disc had on it. It boots fine.