Page 1 of 4
Old ShoBud D10 steel guitar info
Posted: 20 Jul 2022 9:36 pm
by Jim Trantham
]
Can anyone tell me what I have here. It is a ShoBud D10, green body. The only serial number I can find is 117464. Can you tell me what year etc. I won it in an auction for $1250. I’m a beginner steel player and don’t know what I have. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Jim Trantham
Posted: 20 Jul 2022 10:42 pm
by Bob Muller
Looks to be an early 60's Permanent D-10. Probably not the original color and has very interesting pickups. Does not have string rollers and looks to have seen a lot of play would be interesting to know where it has been.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 7:07 am
by Erv Niehaus
I've never seen a Sho~Bud that messed up.
Erv
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 7:48 am
by Ricky Davis
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 8:34 am
by Johnny Cox
A major project.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 9:10 am
by Ken Pippus
And these guys are being polite.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 9:58 am
by Steve Waltz
I had a guitar of that same vintage painted that color over the original finish. It came from the mid-west. It was a lot of work to remove because of how much paint was used. Looking back, it might have been fun to just leave it alone.
The comments might make you think it's hopeless, it's not. If you are just starting, there is a lot of steel playing you can learn on that guitar. Obviously it worked well enough for someone else to bother altering it for looks and sound which they wouldn't do if they couldn't play it. It is more limited than a modern guitar but you have it so make the most of it.
Search "Pull release" on the forum. That is what you have. Read how to tune" Pull release". String it up and play it. Ignore knees for now because the tuning is easier and more reliable without those at this point. Just focus on learning as much A and B pedal as you can and/or get going on your C6th tuning with just pedals or without.
Others will disagree but I have a feeling some are people that want to mimic the exact way that some modernish song was played which requires a more modern set up such as many more knees.... Valid for them.
Pull release isn't that complex. Tune pedals down at the keyhead, tune pedals up at the screws at the back. Tune strings with no pedals at the keyhead. You will find details in your forum search.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 10:20 am
by Bob Muller
Here are a couple photos of a similar guitar that I restored, it is very possible but a lot of time and work. It all depends on how far you want to go.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 10:27 am
by Ricky Davis
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 10:43 am
by Steve Waltz
A question is, does it "need" to be restored for this person at this time.
I myself have gone down the road of spending too much time working under the guitar when that time would have been better spent learning how to play better.
I'm just suggesting that a possible new player might end up not playing steel guitar at all here.
Edited: I see I wasn't clear here... I meant rebuilding it might take too much time and expense when it very well might play fine as it is. I feel like most "rebuilding" is normally just making it look pretty. My fear of him not playing it is that he doesn't start because he is being told the guitar is going to cause problems or that it is too expensive to get a new or newer guitar and the whole plan goes in the trash.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 10:50 am
by Erv Niehaus
Jim,
I agree with Steve.
As a new player, I wouldn't spend much time trying to make this old Sho~Bud playable.
You might get someone to restore it, but chances are, you would have more in it than you care to spend.
I would look for a late model, student model guitar with more modern features.
Just my advice.
Erv
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 11:02 am
by Ken Pippus
Pretty sure that's not Bob's first rebuild. Might set up some unrealistic expectations.
And yes, it's drop-dead gorgeous!
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 11:14 am
by Steve Waltz
Erv,
I am not suggesting that he gets another guitar.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 11:23 am
by Ken Pippus
I guess maybe I am. Even that stunning rebuild of Bob's isn't my idea of a perfect starter guitar. It's pretty easy to get discouraged trying to fly one of these string powered sewing machines.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 11:29 am
by Erv Niehaus
Ken,
I agree.
Erv
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 11:36 am
by Steve Waltz
Ken,
I agree that a near perfect guitar would be nice.
I have a sho bud like his and other pull release guitars. I'm suggesting that getting the A and B pedals working is almost fool proof and will stay in tune and therefore he could get going learning, today.
These guitars are almost twins so I feel like I am speaking of what his could do because I play this guitar now.
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 12:37 pm
by Bob Muller
Jim what is your goal here? If you just want to learn to play, then the best option would be to get a good working newer style guitar and spend your time learning how to play. You could clean up the Sho-Bud a bit put on some new strings do a setup and get started now. The knee levers on the old Bud are not going to function like a modern guitar without a good bit of work. You would have to be someone who likes to do restorations to go beyond that with this guitar.
Re: Old ShoBud D10 steel guitar info
Posted: 21 Jul 2022 2:35 pm
by John Drury
Jim Trantham wrote:]
Can anyone tell me what I have here. It is a ShoBud D10, green body. The only serial number I can find is 117464. Can you tell me what year etc. I won it in an auction for $1250. I’m a beginner steel player and don’t know what I have. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Jim Trantham
Jim,
What you really have there is a project for a PSG tech. that has the dedication of a Kamikaze pilot to get that guitar into playing condition.
BTW, that S/N is not legit, and a lot of those parts are home made.
If you are a beginner, my advice is to put as much distance between yourself and that axe as possible.
There is a market for those older SHO~BUDS, you could get lucky and get at least some of your money back.
When I worked for Bobbe Seymour at the old SGN store in Goodlettsille, we shoved one of those into the dumpster that was in a whole lot better condition than this one. We were both a couple of SHO~BUD nuts! It didn't bother either of us in the least! I still am a SHO~BUD aficionado, and I wouldn't want that guitar for free, shipping paid!
My advice is to find a nice old MSA with 3 x 3 for around a grand, and there are plenty of them out there. They are dependable, they stay in tune while you are learning, and if you decide to stick with PSG, they will sell quickly so you can upgrade.
I know it doesn't sound like it, but I am being your friend here. Ditch that thing without ceremony!
Posted: 22 Jul 2022 2:35 am
by David Ball
Well, I'm no expert, but I've had some old perms and I don't really see anything in the pictures that make the guitar appear to be unplayable in the state it's in. The knee levers look to be more recent add ons, but the rest of the underside looks pretty much like most of the earlier permanents I've seen look. None seem to be particularly tidy on the underside, but that didn't keep them from working and actually working quite well.
The missing fingers on strings with no raises or lowers were common on the earlier perms.
Those pickups are interesting--their construction doesn't look much different than the pickups Shot was winding, other than being split in two. Maybe original? Who knows, but the castings surrounding the pickups don't look like they've been messed with, judging from the pictures.
Dave
Posted: 22 Jul 2022 6:57 am
by Erv Niehaus
I think Jim is more interested in learning how to
play a pedal steel, not in rebuilding that sorry excuse of a pedal steel!
Erv
Posted: 22 Jul 2022 8:17 am
by John Drury
What Erv Niehaus said.
I was coming from the same angle when I put up my post. A student can learn nothing on a guitar like that! One more potential PSG player scared off in another direction musically!
The rollerless nuts alone would have him retuning after every tune, sometimes during the tune!
To a collector, some parts from this guitar might be invalueable, the cabinet would be a crap shoot.
It is a parts guitar anyway you cut it. You can't polish a t3rd!
I'm sure I am being percieved as a real "D" bag due to some of my comments, but nothing I've said about this guitar can be easily disputed.
Wishing Jim the best with his PSG endeavors.......
Re: Old ShoBud D10 steel guitar info
Posted: 22 Jul 2022 10:04 am
by Bob Muller
John Drury wrote:Jim Trantham wrote:]
"When I worked for Bobbe Seymour at the old SGN store in Goodlettsille, we shoved one of those into the dumpster that was in a whole lot better condition than this one. We were both a couple of SHO~BUD nuts! It didn't bother either of us in the least! I still am a SHO~BUD aficionado, and I wouldn't want that guitar for free, shipping paid!"
Anyone that has old Sho-Buds like this and wants to toss them out Please send them to me.
Thanks
Bob
Posted: 22 Jul 2022 10:17 am
by Steve Waltz
Most likely a waste of time to discuss this anymore but the comments from people without these guitars just seems odd to me. One throws a guitar in the trash and is kind of proud of it? Comments about needing to tune after each song are simply false. I have guitars without rollers at the keyhead and they simply don't do that. Buddy Emmons even mentions his opinion of the tone of these guitars without rollers here:
"A few examples of the Sho-Bud sound would be any Ernest Tubb album or the song, "Half a Mind," or the Duane Eddy album, "Twang a Country Song," or my first two albums or with Ray Price, including the song "Night Life." The Sho-Buds I used for those recordings were the original permanent models with changer fingers that rested against tuners in the end of neck and no roller nuts to absorb the sound"
He also goes on to list recordings that he did with ShoBud permanents, Bigsbys and Fenders all without roller keyheads. Those also don't have knee levers......oh my god......no....no......it can't be. Throw them all in the trash. How did he or anyone else ever learn on those things.
The last time I saw someone talk so much trash about a guitar was when Bobby Seamore did it about an altered Bigsby that was on ebay. I was biding because I knew it was an altered Bigsby that I could keep and play. He was talking trash and making people think it was simply a very damaged sho bud. But why? He knew it was Lloyd Greens' Bigsby......guess who ended up with it?
Posted: 22 Jul 2022 10:55 am
by Erv Niehaus
If that guitar was SO great how come he didn't keep playing it?
Posted: 22 Jul 2022 11:21 am
by John Drury
Steve Waltz wrote:Most likely a waste of time to discuss this anymore but the comments from people without these guitars just seems odd to me. One throws a guitar in the trash and is kind of proud of it? Comments about needing to tune after each song are simply false. I have guitars without rollers at the keyhead and they simply don't do that. Buddy Emmons even mentions his opinion of the tone of these guitars without rollers here:
"A few examples of the Sho-Bud sound would be any Ernest Tubb album or the song, "Half a Mind," or the Duane Eddy album, "Twang a Country Song," or my first two albums or with Ray Price, including the song "Night Life." The Sho-Buds I used for those recordings were the original permanent models with changer fingers that rested against tuners in the end of neck and no roller nuts to absorb the sound"
He also goes on to list recordings that he did with ShoBud permanents, Bigsbys and Fenders all without roller keyheads. Those also don't have knee levers......oh my god......no....no......it can't be. Throw them all in the trash. How did he or anyone else ever learn on those things.
The last time I saw someone talk so much trash about a guitar was when Bobby Seamore did it about an altered Bigsby that was on ebay. I was biding because I knew it was an altered Bigsby that I could keep and play. He was talking trash and making people think it was simply a very damaged sho bud. But why? He knew it was Lloyd Greens' Bigsby......guess who ended up with it?
Steve,
I think you misconstrued what I said about this being NOT a beginners guitar, I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers! Just trying to give a newbie some direction. I tried to learn on 'Guitarbage" and came close to giving the whole idea up!
Didn't say we were proud of what we did, I said it didn't bother us. I recall Seymour saying that we both had perfect pitch, because it didn't hit the sides of the dumpster going in!
Yes, the tone from those guitars back then were amazing! So were the players, none of them beginners by any stretch!
Not even sure how to respond about the roller nuts not being a necessity.
The last time I saw the "Blade" it had roller nuts, and the underneath looked like a knee lever farm!
Going out on a limb here and guessing it was Bobbe that outbid you on the Bigsby?
