| Author |
Topic: how do you do it?!? |
Roy Thomas
From:
Louisiana, USA
|
Posted 6 Apr 2022 12:59 pm |
|
i am trying to learn how to basically play the steel mostly so i can setup copedent and just not rely on previous ratios.
what makes it hard, is i have to learn left hand as well. i am working on E9 grips but it is frustrating to say the least.
sure wish my father taught me moons ago. i guess rock and roll got in the way, then comes robert randolf maybe if he was around as well as jimi hendrix i wouldn't be in a pickle.
 |
|
|
|
Joe Krumel
From:
Hermitage, Tn.
|
Posted 6 Apr 2022 1:42 pm learning
|
|
| Hang in there Roy. Don't overwhelm yourself. It comes together slow sometime. We feel your pain for sure. No one tames this instrument without a fight.When it does start to get easier you wont be able to stop the fun this thing can give. enjoy the journey and keep us posted. |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 6 Apr 2022 6:09 pm Re: how do you do it?!?
|
|
| Roy Thomas wrote: |
i am trying to learn how to basically play the steel mostly so i can setup copedent and just not rely on previous ratios.
|
My suggestion is to learn the standard setup first! Many players, especially those who've been exposed to straight guitar and rock music, want to automatically come up with their own copedent (tuning and changes). But hundreds of very talented players have have come before you, many of them better than you and I will ever be, and they have come up with a tuning and changes that work remarkably well. No, it's not much like what you're used to, but you'd be amazed at what can be done on it once you really learn it.
Go with the standard for a couple of years, and then you'll be in a better position to decide what's right for you! |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 6 Apr 2022 6:52 pm
|
|
I agree with Joe and Donny. Go with the standard setup for now, it's not to hard to do variations later. If you love the sound, it's worth the trouble. I did the blues, rock and roll, jazz, country, and other guitar stuff for 30+ years before I ever touched a pedal steel - Bloomfield, Jimi, Allmans, BB, Muddy, Albert King, Johnny Winter, Scotty Moore, Burton, Roy Buchanan, Kessel, and more - and this is a completely different beast. But once you get past the physical part, there is a relationship that should present itself to you in time. If you look, I think you'll see that even Robert Randolph's setup has some differences, but many similarities, to a typical universal E9/B6 setup.
Of course, there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a Sacred Steel setup if you're pretty sure that's the way you want to go. But I think, in the early stages, the most important thing is to practice playing, not diddling with the underside of the guitar. |
|
|
|
Andrew Goulet
|
Posted 6 Apr 2022 7:44 pm
|
|
If you don't like E9 grips, you should see my D6/9 grips!
Just kidding, it's all hard. If you sit down 15 minutes a day with a drone/metronome and practice grips, you WILL get it.
Then learn your basic chords and gig with a band at low-pressure shows. For me, playing shows early on really motivated me to learn my basics while developing my ear. I had to learn, if I wanted to play something during the song (even if it was simple) and not be out of tune.
I think this is my 12th year of playing and I'm still working on my basics. I can hang ok in a band, but intonation, clean grips, smooth pedal/lever changes, etc... can always use improvement. Mastery of those elements is really important. I always think of Jerry Byrd as a paragon of technique.
_________________
Marlen S12 pedal steel
12 string Bill Hatcher lap steel
ZT Club and Lunchbox |
|
|
|
Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 6:20 am
|
|
Andrew said: I think this is my 12th year of playing and I'm still working on my basics.
Chris says: I have been playing for many decades and I am still working on my basics. |
|
|
|
Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 7:29 am
|
|
If you're left handed it makes it more difficult. I'd suggest finding a used left handed built guitar, a slim find. If dead serious about playing steel, order a new professional model left handed guitar. Don't forget to turn the thumb pick over...pointy part facing the floor. 
If you're an experienced player, it's always good to step back to the basics and retrace and sometimes finding something that was missed.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
|
|
|
Roy Thomas
From:
Louisiana, USA
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 7:40 am how do you do it
|
|
i agree, the steel really has never been mastered, toooo many possibilities.
i would like to learn how to play one and this may be a start. i agree that it MUST take practice upon practice which liquid courage will not provide, it is an intimidating instrument.
my dilemma is this:
building this right hand and:
building this left hand.
i have the last new pedalmaster in the world a D8 which i often use as a model. copedent or feel is a personal thing so one shoe does not fit all, but being able to play will be a big help as every guitar even using the same parts will have diff's.
if i can get my fingers to work right i know the feet will. |
|
|
|
Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 7:46 am
|
|
| Look at it this way. When you were first learning to play guitar, you didn’t do your own setup with your own tuning. At least, I didn’t. You have to see the pedal steel as its own thing. It’s called a guitar, but it’s not a 6-string tuned to EADGBE, and for good reason. |
|
|
|
Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 8:36 am
|
|
Buy a guitar that is easy to change the co-pedent. I mostly added and changed knee levers over the years. I still play MSA's and they aren't the easiest to change (pulling cross shafts and re-arranging), adding triple raise pulls on a double raise changer, but I did it many times. After a while, you'll settle in on your preferred changes.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
|
|
|
Roy Thomas
From:
Louisiana, USA
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 11:00 am how do you do it
|
|
cannot get any easier than pedalmaster design with 19 shaft possibilities (10flr,4knee,2vertical and room for reversing shafts)
have too many guitars in the house now but i would to be able to at least run grips and such before i sell them.(trying to recover inventory costs)
to a beginner, the undercarriage is just as over-whelming although basic in design.(discounting stops and such) |
|
|
|
Richard Alderson
From:
Illinois, USA
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 11:40 am
|
|
I would say it takes 1 - 2 years just to get used to A-B-C pedals and lowering and raising your E strings. Some guys are geniuses........not me ! I saw recently where Lloyd Green started on a six string lap steel, so there ya go.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500. |
|
|
|
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 1:00 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| i am trying to learn how to basically play the steel mostly so i can setup copedent and just not rely on previous ratios. what makes it hard, is i have to learn left hand as well. ... have too many guitars in the house now but i would to be able to at least run grips and such before i sell them.(trying to recover inventory costs) |
I think I, and I suspect others, have missed this critical point - you are trying to learn to play to be competent enough to set up the guitars you have now so you can sell some. So different guitars are not in the offing.
As far as learning goes - it does take a while for even the most basic physical motions to become ingrained. But if you approach it methodically and consistently, it doesn't have to be intimidating. Let the other guys be intimidated. Just focus hard for a while, and the barriers should fall.
Allow for the possibility that once you start to get the hang of playing this contraption, you may wanna keep one or two of these guitars for yourself and become a pedal steel player. Once the most basic barriers to playing are broken, it is totally addictive.  |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 8 Apr 2022 2:58 pm
|
|
Well, this puts a different light on things.  If you have a bunch of guitars that will require setting up (read: modifying them to the customer's desired changes), you might enlist help from a nearby player. Many players are able to do setups, and you could negotiate a fee with them to make the guitars that you have customer-ready. Learning to play aside, I guess we should ask - are you planning a long-term business, or do you just want to unload the guitars you already have? I ask this because knowing how to play fairly well is almost mandatory to knowing how to properly set them up.
Also, there are vast differences in what people might charge to do this kind of work (from $25/hour to $200/hour), so consider carefully whom you choose, should you decide to go in this direction. |
|
|
|
