Archtop acoustic guitar for Western swing string suggestions

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 2 Mar 2022 10:41 am

There are not many arch top acoustic guitars without pickups like were used in Western swing and orchestra jazz chord comping. I have a chance to acquire an old Gretsch arch top acoustic with no pickup.

A round hole acoustic uses round wound bronze strings and and arch top acoustic with a pickup would use nickel round wound or flat wound strings

So what about an arch top acoustic with no pick up? I asked some knowledgeable people at the local music store and all the did was scratch their heads.

Peter Krebs · Post by **Peter Krebs** » 2 Mar 2022 11:17 am

Hi Len. Over the years I’ve played mostly Epiphone acoustic archtops. I’ve always thought of them in terms of their rhythmic punch (they call it ‘sock rhythm’ for a reason!). For a tight percussive sound, I like flatwounds (like D’Addario chromes). The heavier the better (my top string is usually .13 or .14). I also like the heavier Martin monel Retro set. They sound better to my ears the ‘deader’ they get over time (the strings on my current Epi are about three years old). I also use a really heavy pick to get that sound - I like Wegen gypsy jazz picks. Hope that helps! Pete

Robert B Murphy · Post by **Robert B Murphy** » 2 Mar 2022 11:22 am

I play a '46 L7 and use standard bronze mediums on it. That is .056, .046, .036, .027, .017, .013. When playing swing rhythm on it I pick more toward the end of the fretboard so the new string tone isn't as pronounced as when digging in down by the bridge. That tone won't survive more than a set or two of hard playing anyway so, except for recording, who cares? Bronze is superior for pure acoustic guitars in my opinion. You might want to consider the hardness of the winding metal too as I'd rather wear out the string than the fret.

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 2 Mar 2022 2:25 pm

I am using Martin Retro Monel Alloy strings (0.013") on my 1948 Gibson L-4 and on my Martin D-28. They are not as bright as the bronze alloys, and don't seem to go "dead" after a few days of hard playing. The Monel alloy sound is very vintage and authentic.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 2 Mar 2022 4:56 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm going to see what the condition of the frets are on this guitar guitar when I get it. From the pictures and description it looks very good.
I'm really excited getting this guitar. I'll post again when I receive it

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 3 Mar 2022 1:48 am

On an old-school acoustic archtop for swing rhythm playing, I would put as heavy strings and high action as the guitar and my fingers can take. I think 13-56 is sorta my baseline, but I would be a bit careful to check out how much a vintage archtop can handle. Some of the old Gretsch archtops I've played were a bit lightly built, and many old Gretsches I've had were sorta suspect in the neck-joint/old-glue department.

On the other hand, with a really heavily built archtop with a real comfortable neck, even 14-58/60 is not unthinkable. My jazz guitar mentor had a mid-late 30s Epiphone Emperor that was magnificent for Freddie Green style rhythm with those ridiculously heavy strings, and that guitar handled them like a champ. I was gonna buy that guitar when he wound up trading it and some do-re-mi to Gruhn to get a '67 L5. That was the best acoustic archtop I have ever had in my hands. He always put old-school round wound brass strings on that guitar, not anything like Phosphor Bronze, which I find too rattly on an archtop.

I also like Monel strings on a guitar like this. I haven't tried the Martin Monels, but I sometimes used the old Gibson Monels until they stopped making them. Not quite as bright, but properly set up, Monels can give a nice thump.

You could try flatwounds. I love them for electric archtops, but I usually find them a bit tame for a pure acoustic. They have a smoother sound as well as a smoother feel, so they might work fine in a small ensemble. But in a larger ensemble where you really want to get above the fray, I think the old-school brass are hard to beat.

Overall, I'd suggest a bit of experimentation to see what you like. But no matter what, I have to keep a pretty high action to get that nice bark which, for me, comes from just backing off the strings to choke a bit and get the accent. So I need plenty of action to get that to work. To me, if I can comfortably play single-string solos, it's too low.

Robert B Murphy · Post by **Robert B Murphy** » 3 Mar 2022 8:34 pm

I should mention that what is called 80/20 bronze is actually a brass alloy.

Matthew Walton · Post by **Matthew Walton** » 8 Mar 2022 9:41 am

Dave Mudgett wrote:Some of the old Gretsch archtops I've played were a bit lightly built, and many old Gretsches I've had were sorta suspect in the neck-joint/old-glue department.

I have a neat '53 Gretsch archtop; when I told my guitar guy about it he casually said "Oh yeah, an exploding Gretsch."

So yeah, the Gretsch glue-starved neck joint is common enough to have gained a moniker. Fortunately it makes neck resets really easy!

On that Gretsch I have D'Addario Half Rounds (stainless steel) on it. It has a pickup so I needed the the ferrous qualities, but it also sounds quite good as an acoustic as well.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 9 Mar 2022 9:34 pm

I played for many years with a singer who used what I believe was a '50s vintage Gibson ES-360, a double pickup acoustic/electric archtop, using a big Titan amp. All he ever used on that guitar were Mapes bronze-wounds, and it sounded great with his "slap rhythm" (western swing) style.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Mar 2022 8:21 am

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Samick guitars.
They make about 1/2 of the import guitars that are sold, usually under different names.
However, they do make some guitars and sell under their own name.
My guitar slinger buddy, that I play with, comes over to my place and has the pick of several arch top guitars but always picks a Samick, I have two or three.
This is what one of them looks like:

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 10 Mar 2022 7:12 pm

I hope to have this guitar next week. I'll post a pic when I get it. It looks to be nicely kept and comes with a hardshell velour lined case.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 22 Mar 2022 4:28 pm

OK, here is the Gretsch arch top acoustic. It's 15 years old and was hardly ever played as the frets are like new and there is only a few little dings on guitar. The tuners are very firm and it's obvious the strings were not changed very often. The neck is straight and rather slim for a guitar like this. It plays wonderful even with the oxidized tarnished strings.

I will give it a good cleaning, polish the frets and lemon oil the fret board. I have a set of String Joy .012-.052 round core strings to try on this guitar. It also came with a hardshell velour lined case. This guitar is really a closet classic.

Thanks for all your input.

Lenny

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 22 Mar 2022 6:30 pm

OK, you have a modern reissue, G100 I assume, probably made in Korea, Electromatic acoustic full-body archtop. Good guitars and can probably take some pretty heavy strings if you just adjust the truss rod to compensate. Definitely try your strings, but you might find you like flatwounds on that guitar. I sometimes use Rotosound Top Tape Monel Steel - they only come in 12-52 these days. Sure wish they had 13-56 for an acoustic archtop.

I suggest looking at this thread on jazzguitar.be - https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar- ... dvice.html - and this video of Freddie Green, playing with Diane Schuur, about a week before he died in 1987 - https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1rh8s. I think that was his Stromberg, which is perhaps, along with a 30s Epiphone Emperor, the finest acoustic archtop ever made for big-band playing (IMO). Look at that action starting at 0:05, and it shows up elsewhere. Gotta be a half centimeter or more. The way the strings reflect in the light, sorta looks like Monel steel strings to me, might be flatwounds.

Freddie was the absolute master of swing rhythm guitar. I got to see him several times with Basie, last time was 1983 on the New Haven Green, less than a year before Basie passed. We were with friends, and I ditched them all to go hang on the back/stage-right side of the stage to just watch Freddie. No matter what style of jazz rhythm guitar you want to play, you will never go wrong learning the Freddie Green style.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 23 Mar 2022 8:34 am

Thanks Dave:

Freddie Green had a very unique style. I saw Count Basie at the Warwick Musical Theater in Rhode Island in the early 80's and You could hear the chunky rhythm Freddis was playing..

I'll start with the strings I have now and get a feel for the guitar. Yes, it's made in Korea and the workmanship in very good as I don't see any issues. $400 well spent.

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