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Topic: Adding/changing knee levers to Sho-Bud |
Eric Davidson
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2021 4:05 pm |
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I’ve got a 6139 that I’d like to put the E’s levers on the left knee and basically get it setup more like my Push Pull if possible. I live in KY so if anyone could do this in the surrounding I’d be interested in seeing what the cost might be. My Emmons is setup as LKR lowers Es, LKL raises, RKL raises 1st and lowers 6th, RKR lowers 2nd. Thanks for any info
I can’t add a pic currently but will as soon as possible |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 9 Dec 2021 5:08 pm
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| He's not in Kentucky, but Ricky Davis did the same mechanical job on my 6139 earlier this year. When I got it back, it played like a brand-new guitar. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 9 Dec 2021 8:32 pm
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Is your guitar a rack and barrel setup? Two-hole pullers w/ barrel tuners? Two hole pullers with clamping swivels and nylon endplate tuners (two-raise changer)? What levers are the E raise and lower on now? It's a really simple operation to swap levers like you're proposing, you just need to swap some rods around. All you need is a couple different size allen wrenches and 5-10 minutes. More specific info about your guitar will yield a more specific response.
_________________
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Eric Davidson
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2021 5:47 am
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| Ian Worley wrote: |
| Is your guitar a rack and barrel setup? Two-hole pullers w/ barrel tuners? Two hole pullers with clamping swivels and nylon endplate tuners (two-raise changer)? What levers are the E raise and lower on now? It's a really simple operation to swap levers like you're proposing, you just need to swap some rods around. All you need is a couple different size allen wrenches and 5-10 minutes. More specific info about your guitar will yield a more specific response. |
Thanks for your response, my guitar is a rack and barrel guitar with 3 knee levers, Emmons setup pedals, E lower on RKL, Raise on RKR and raise of second string with LKL. The end plate screws are Allen screws. Im unsure of the type of changer and I’m trying to post pictures but am unable to for some reason.I’ll keep trying though and if there’s any other info needed, please let me know. Really appreciate the help, thanks |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 10 Dec 2021 8:21 am
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If your steel is rack & barrel, then your changer is 1 up/1 down. There shouldn't be any reason why you can't have 4 KL's set up in Emmons style.
As far as who's going to do the work, can you do it yourself if you have the parts?
When I first got my r&b 6139, it had one KL and I installed the other three myself - after getting the parts from Sho-Bud - and in no way am I good at that sort of thing. Wasn't all that hard, really.
I would suggest you reach out to Michael Yahl at PSG Parts for what you need.
Two hole pullers will also work on a rack & barrel steel...it's not too uncommon to see a mix of both systems on an old Bud. |
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Eric Davidson
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2021 8:52 am Pics
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Eric Davidson
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2021 8:57 am
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| Skip Edwards wrote: |
If your steel is rack & barrel, then your changer is 1 up/1 down. There shouldn't be any reason why you can't have 4 KL's set up in Emmons style.
As far as who's going to do the work, can you do it yourself if you have the parts?
When I first got my r&b 6139, it had one KL and I installed the other three myself - after getting the parts from Sho-Bud - and in no way am I good at that sort of thing. Wasn't all that hard, really.
I would suggest you reach out to Michael Yahl at PSG Parts for what you need.
Two hole pullers will also work on a rack & barrel steel...it's not too uncommon to see a mix of both systems on an old Bud. |
I would love to learn how to put these on, are there any resources you had to learn from? I think my biggest concern is drilling unnecessary holes, but Maybe I’m over complicating it? Anyhow, thanks for the suggestions |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 10 Dec 2021 9:10 am
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Not sure about resources. I got my 6139 in '72 and installed the other KL's shortly after, and the only way I knew what to do was to study how the mechanism worked.
It wasn't too hard to figure out, and yeah...you want to be sure you don't use any screws that are too long, and end up going thru the top go the body.
Take lots of pictures as you go, for reference. I wouldn't worry too much about unnecessary holes if all you're basically going to be doing is adding one KL & swapping rods around.
Looking at the pic of your steel, it looks like the stop for your LKL is right about where your LKR lever would go, so you might need to realign that stop, swiveling it so it's situated more in line with the rods - less of an angle. You should be able to drop a LKR in there and run a rod to a rack (or two hole puller/barrels) placed between the racks for your LKL & RKL.
Think it out carefully...you might ask Ricky Davis for advice on where to place things. If you contact Michael Yahl for parts, or Ricky, be sure to send pictures so they can figure out the best way to install everything, and the best parts to make it all happen.
Good luck & let us know how it goes. |
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Eric Davidson
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2021 10:30 am
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| Skip Edwards wrote: |
Not sure about resources. I got my 6139 in '72 and installed the other KL's shortly after, and the only way I knew what to do was to study how the mechanism worked.
It wasn't too hard to figure out, and yeah...you want to be sure you don't use any screws that are too long, and end up going thru the top go the body.
Take lots of pictures as you go, for reference. I wouldn't worry too much about unnecessary holes if all you're basically going to be doing is adding one KL & swapping rods around.
Looking at the pic of your steel, it looks like the stop for your LKL is right about where your LKR lever would go, so you might need to realign that stop, swiveling it so it's situated more in line with the rods - less of an angle. You should be able to drop a LKR in there and run a rod to a rack (or two hole puller/barrels) placed between the racks for your LKL & RKL.
Think it out carefully...you might ask Ricky Davis for advice on where to place things. If you contact Michael Yahl for parts, or Ricky, be sure to send pictures so they can figure out the best way to install everything, and the best parts to make it all happen.
Good luck & let us know how it goes. |
Thank you very much for the info, that helps a lot in knowing where to start. I would love to be able to add these myself but having a safety net of more experienced folks to ask helps |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 10 Dec 2021 11:11 am
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Just swapping the rods around on a rack and barrel guitar is super easy, but needing to add the 4th lever complicates things a bit. As Skip said, you can use two-hole pullers and swivels, the hole spacing is the same as the older racks, but you'll have to piece together the necessary parts. Michael Yahl sells some of what you'll need but he's out of stock on a some things, and he doesn't make the old style welded reversing mechanisms and cross shafts with the 1/8" tab for the lever like you have on your RKR. You can still assemble a working setup using the hex shaft parts Michael does sell. He also makes teardrop levers that fit the later 1/4" tab brackets. You would just use a round cross shaft for the actual pulls with a little strategic filing in a couple of spots advised to create flats on the shaft to give the set screws someplace to bite.
A better first option might be to ask here on the forum in the Wanted to Buy section whether anyone has some spare R&B parts to sell. You need basically the same stuff as what you have on RKR - the actual lever, the reverser mechanism, a lever stop block, two pull rods of appropriate length, two barrels and a rack (or a cross shaft with two 2-hole pullers, swivels and mounting brackets). For placement, rule of thumb is 6" - 6-1/2" between the faces of the two opposing levers, you would position the rack (or cross shaft) based on the lever location. There are tons of pictures here on the forum to illustrate how/where to place the components. I or someone here can give you some specific dimensions if needed once you have the parts in hand, as that might vary depending on which parts you end up using.
_________________
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Gary Spaeth
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2021 11:12 am
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| i had a 6139 in 74 and i made all my 3 added knee levers from scratch. i had never even sawed metal before i started. my cousin welded the round shafts to the vertical rack holding sides. the one pushing left was easier but had to figure out the reversing rr and lr levers having never seen how to do that. a drill press would have been a great help but no such luck, just a hack saw and an 1/4" electric drill. whew! it was fun. probably cost all of $5. |
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