The Steel Guitar Forum

What guitar did Jerry Garcia play on "Teach Your Children"?

http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2019/08/ ... t.html?m=1

If the dates given here are accurate it would seem it was the ZB D-10. Jerry didn't get the Emmons until '71 and Deja Vu was recorded from '69 to eary '70.

Peter Grant has the guitar in California!
https://petegrant.com/garcia/

b0b wrote:What guitar did Jerry Garcia play on "Teach Your Children"?

I had the same question, b0b. I spent a few minutes looking into it and came to the conclusion it must be the ZB.

Where's Neil Young when you need him?

It was stated in a Facebook post that he played it on a Fender 400. As a devoted Deadhead from 1968 to this day, I have never seen or heard of him playing a Fender. I am fairly certain it was his ZB.

Dave Zirbel wrote:Peter Grant has the guitar in California!
https://petegrant.com/garcia/

That guitar is what made me want to switch from drums to steel guitar. My first choice for a PSG was ZB because of this guitar. I was at the Family Dog (ballroom?) At the old Playland at the beach in San Francisco to see the Grateful Dead and New Riders of the Purple Sage. The stage that the New Riders were on was only 6 to maybe 12 inches high. I was standing in the first row practically face to face with Jerry. When they got done playing, and before heading to the other end of the hall for his Dead set, I asked him about his steel and he took a minute to tell me what it was and how the pedals and knee levers worked. That was all it took for me to eventually switch.

Richard, was that the Avalon Ballroom? Family Dog was, I believe, the production company Chet Helms started.

I held a brief tenure there in the 60s--not playing but working the snack bar.

Chris (formerly of Missoula)

It was stated in a Facebook post that he played it on a Fender 400

He actually did own a Fender 1000 but didn't like it and gave it to Banana of the Youngbloods who actually recorded with it. I've seen it in a some documentary footage of the Haight Street house...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC5KQsrPZmA


Teach was the ZB no doubt..

Chris Brooks wrote:Richard, was that the Avalon Ballroom? Family Dog was, I believe, the production company Chet Helms started.

I held a brief tenure there in the 60s--not playing but working the snack bar.

Chris (formerly of Missoula)

No, not the Avalon. This was actually a building that was at the former Playland amusement park, right across highway 1 from the ocean. I think it was the building that housed slot car tracks. But I believe it was a Chet Helms' Venue using the Family Dog name. I have never heard it called anything but "the Family Dog". The Avalon was on Sutter Street. Unfortunately, I never went to the Avalon.

Dave Zirbel wrote:

It was stated in a Facebook post that he played it on a Fender 400

He actually did own a Fender 1000 but didn't like it and gave it to Banana of the Youngbloods who actually recorded with it. I've seen in in a some documentary footage of the Haight Street house...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC5KQsrPZmA


Teach was the ZB no doubt..

Thanks for that info. Now I recall the story about him having it and giving it to Banana.

I wish I knew then what I know now about pedal steel when I saw Jerry play pedal with the New Riders at the Hollywood Bowl in around '71 or '72, followed by an incredible Dead show. Best Dead (and Riders) concert I ever saw.

At the risk of straying off b0b's clearly defined topic, I've been revisiting the Dead lately and I've been pondering the perrenial question of how good a steel player Garcia was. It seems to me that he wasn't a great player, as he never intended to make a career of it and had no time in his busy life to sit down and learn a ton of licks. On the other hand he was a great employer of the instrument - he understood its musical potential and knew where it would be effective, so that everything he did with it sounded fantastic.

And Ian, I would add that when I saw Jerry back in those days, I was listening to mostly Dead, Cream, Allman Brothers, Paul Butterfield, Muddy Waters, etc , and I thought, whoa! i like that sound, I need to know more about pedal steel, which led me on another path of music.

Richard Sinkler wrote:That guitar is what made me want to switch from drums to steel guitar. My first choice for a PSG was ZB because of this guitar. I was at the Family Dog (ballroom?) At the old Playland at the beach in San Francisco to see the Grateful Dead and New Riders of the Purple Sage. The stage that the New Riders were on was only 6 to maybe 12 inches high. I was standing in the first row practically face to face with Jerry. When they got done playing, and before heading to the other end of the hall for his Dead set, I asked him about his steel and he took a minute to tell me what it was and how the pedals and knee levers worked. That was all it took for me to eventually switch.

I was there, too, also standing right up front! We didn't know each other then, but we might have been right next to each other!

The location to which Richard and b0b are referring was The Family Dog on the Great Highway.

This was the location Chet Helms went to after the Avalon Ballroom closed on Sutter St.

Mark Eaton wrote:The location to which Richard and b0b are referring was The Family Dog on the Great Highway.

This was the location Chet Helms went to after the Avalon Ballroom closed on Sutter St.

I loved going there for concerts. It was nice being able to go out on the patio for fresh air. Two stages so there weren't big gaps between bands. My brother and some friends of mine would dress up in old suits we got from Goodwill and go to concerts there, the Fillmore West, Winterland, and Fillmore Auditorium. Great times.

Does anyone remember some of the other bands Jerry performed with ( in person, not in the studio)? I remember several times at the Fillmore West when the Dead would have Dead related bands as openers. They would do an acoustic set, a lot of times with Jerry on steel. I remember him playing with the Rowan Brothers. I seem to remember him playing with a band called James and the Good Brothers. The Rowan Brothers and James and the Good Brothers were the bands I saw him play the Emmons. And of course the New Riders. If I could re-live one section of my life, it would be those years.

Does anyone remember some of the other bands Jerry performed with ( in person, not in the studio)?

Here's a one off gig he did with Doug Sahm and Leon Russel in Texas, 1972. I think Phil plays bass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Van_3-Sn-n0

here's another shot from that TX gig, only time I've seen Jerry photographed playing an MSA. he reportedly owned a Sho-Bud too but I've never seen any photos

Richard Sinkler wrote:Does anyone remember some of the other bands Jerry performed with ( in person, not in the studio)? I remember several times at the Fillmore West when the Dead would have Dead related bands as openers. They would do an acoustic set, a lot of times with Jerry on steel. I remember him playing with the Rowan Brothers. I seem to remember him playing with a band called James and the Good Brothers. The Rowan Brothers and James and the Good Brothers were the bands I saw him play the Emmons. And of course the New Riders. If I could re-live one section of my life, it would be those years.

I saw Jerry play with Merle Saunders at the Keystone in Berkeley several times.
Edit: not steel though.

You guys remember me around 1971? Keystone or Winterland….(kidding of course) .I had a Jerry shrine in the back of my ‘64 bus.
😎 jesus, my poor parents….what i put them through. I can only hope to be as patient with my grandkids, as my folks were with me😜

Richard Sinkler wrote:Does anyone remember some of the other bands Jerry performed with ( in person, not in the studio)?

At risk of stating the obvious, there was the Jerry Garcia Band, who I saw at a church in Oberlin Ohio in the mid 70’s. It was one of the first concerts I ever went to, and it was the coolest thing ever. He did not play steel at that show, but that band was hypnotic.

I was talking more of his pedal steel gigs. I also saw him with Merle Saunders and Tom Fogerty, and the Jerry Garcia Band. The best pot I ever smoked was at a Garcia, Saunders, Fogerty concert at the Longshoreman's Hall in SF. They had no backstage and they were lined up against a wall. I was just to the inside of the rope barrier between them and the crowd. There was Jerry, right next to me. I offered him some weird candy called Zotz that foamed up in your mouth. He gave a few hits off his joint, and don't remember much more about that night.

I might have passed a joint to some of you guys at these shows back in the day, or pee'd in an adjacent urinal in a restroom.

I know we are talking specifically about Garcia on pedal steel, but I'll relate the following story.

Still one of the Five Greatest Concerts of My Life: The Dead, Waylon Jennings & the Waylors, and New Riders. May 1973 at Kezar Stadium which is pretty much across the street from the Haight/Ashbury neighborhood. Also the long time home of the 49ers prior to moving to the now torn down Candlestick Park. I was 19 at the time.

It was an afternoon that fit the description "Sunshine Daydream." Before the music commenced I even got to play in the touch football game with Bill Graham and company - he used to love to gather a bunch of guys for this activity at some outdoor concerts.

New Riders opened with by now of course Buddy Cage on pedal steel, and the Dead headlined. Love the Dead and New Riders, but they were part of "the home team" in the Bay area so I saw them pretty often. Waylon Jennings, at the height of his power in the Honky Tonk Heroes era - to this day still my all time favorite country album.

In the middle was the band that really knocked me out, Waylon and the Waylors. If Pete Grant sees this thread perhaps he will elaborate - his story is that when Waylon was on, he and Garcia were paying close attention to Ralph Mooney's playing from the wings.

Waylon had given an interview, don't recall where - might have been the SF Chronicle prior to the show. He had mentioned that he was a little apprehensive playing to a crowd of hippies.

He had nothing to worry about - the crowd loved it! And I can still see Mooney in my mind's eye - he would take a ride and the audience would roar with applause. I was pretty close to the stage - Ralph was grinning from ear-to-ear.

This concert the following week Led Zeppelin with The Tubes, Lee Michaels, and Roy Harper. I went with some buddies who were way into Zeppelin. I sort of enjoyed i, but it was way more crowded than the week prior and pretty intense. I had their albums, but in reality I wasn't a big fan. Over the years I have developed a greater appreciation for the band. Maybe it's because there just isn't much Rock and Roll out there anymore that moves me.

These two events were a precursor to what became the Day on the Green concerts across the bay at the Oakland Coliseum. I went to a lot of those shows.

Richard Sinkler wrote:I was talking more of his pedal steel gigs. I also saw him with Merle Saunders and Tom Fogerty, and the Jerry Garcia Band. The best pot I ever smoked was at a Garcia, Saunders, Fogerty concert at the Longshoreman's Hall in SF. They had no backstage and they were lined up against a wall. I was just to the inside of the rope barrier between them and the crowd. There was Jerry, right next to me. I offered him some weird candy called Zotz that foamed up in your mouth. He gave a few hits off his joint, and don't remember much more about that night.

Dang Zotz! Forgot about those. Still remember the other stuff though.

Dave